BG5 Twin Turbo no power

[Fast Eddie]

Just curious which way the fuel filter in a bg5 goes? mounted by the washer bottle. The words \'in\' are sort of in the middle of the 2 pipes. A photo/pic of the correct in and out would be awesome cheers. havent found a clear enough pic on google and search on here didnt return anything helpful

[Guest]

Here yah go mate.

The line that I disconnected is the fuel feed line from the fuel pump.

Hope this helps

[Rosssub]

The "OUT" was hiding.

[Guest]

 Rosssub said:

The "OUT" was hiding.

You get the idea

[Fast Eddie]

Cool, cheers - filter was the right way. Getting about 39-40psi fuel pressure at idle which I think is ok?

Got a BG5 auto twin turbo that refuses to get on boost, as soon as u try make full power it misfires/tries to stall. You can peddle it along nicely if you work/feather the throttle.

I often hear a relay above gas pedal/behind dash clicking which affects cars idle most noticeably. Sonetimes it goes crazy clicking on off in quick succesion, sometimes it behaves for ages. Sometimes clicks on off once in a while/intermittant.

No CEL etc. done lots of diagnosis already. Only real issue i found was exhaust control valve (actuator rod) only seemed to travel 15mm in test mode via SSM. But manual recons it should do 30mm still not sure if that eould cause these problems especially during primary only rpm range.

Was thinking bad coil? Maybe back feeding through loom causing other funny issues like relay clicking and tacho going to zero/ignition cutting off completely thèn restarting after u try floor it and let it backgire/misfire bit much.

Any ideas appreciated. Engine ran fine before removal for new valves fitted, after reinstall has these issues. Have done lots of checking, solenoids, vac lines, resistances, volt readings etc related to twin turbo system.

[Marky]

Have you checked the AFM? Fuel pressure is right or near enough to it

The clicking isn\'t an immobiliser is it?

Try hardwiring the fuel pump, just give it 12v and see if it isn\'t a fuel pump relay having a spazzmo or something

Why was engine pulled? Not a dicky fuel pump is it (since you seem to reckon something going on there)

ECV will only be an issue if you can hear it is stuck either parallel or single and it can\'t swap over. If it is definitely closed don\'t worry about it for now (bear in mind it does have a range of adjustment... but it\'s not going to just go and unwind itself either I guess)

- edit - the bit about the tacho going nuts too does make me think it\'s electrical above anything else. Could be crank or cam angle sensor (what does tach feed come from?) - if that was giving an intermittent signal it\'d explain an outright cutout and the dash going nuts - what it wouldn\'t explain is why it only happens with more throttle

short answer fck knows have fun

[Fast Eddie]

 Marky said:

Have you checked the AFM? Fuel pressure is right or near enough to it

The clicking isn\'t an immobiliser is it?

Try hardwiring the fuel pump, just give it 12v and see if it isn\'t a fuel pump relay having a spazzmo or something

Why was engine pulled? Not a dicky fuel pump is it (since you seem to reckon something going on there)

ECV will only be an issue if you can hear it is stuck either parallel or single and it can\'t swap over. If it is definitely closed don\'t worry about it for now (bear in mind it does have a range of adjustment... but it\'s not going to just go and unwind itself either I guess)

- edit - the bit about the tacho going nuts too does make me think it\'s electrical above anything else. Could be crank or cam angle sensor (what does tach feed come from?) - if that was giving an intermittent signal it\'d explain an outright cutout and the dash going nuts - what it wouldn\'t explain is why it only happens with more throttle

short answer fck knows have fun

Haha, it should be fun

Yip tried a brand new AFM in it, no change, different ecu no change. Engine came out for new exhaust valves on right rear cylinder which had burnt out for some reason.

No immobiliser/alarm fitted. I think there are 3/4 relays drivers side in dash - i know 2 control ignition and fuel pump - not sure bout other 2.. And dont know which ones are which haha - should have wiring diagram at work. Bought the car as a project last week so hopefully can get it running right. Spent the night tonight just rewiring/soldering the stereo as it had wires just twisted tgether and taped, some had come loose etc..

- on that note, how can I activate the power aerial (up/down) with an aftermarket head unit (pioneer)? I have 3 wires left in the dash not used by head unit, a black a white and a colored/brown maybe. (Have to look again)

And finally, it has its steering warning light on - wires on solenoid on rack look ok - is there a fuse somewhere? Couldnt see it in engine bay.

And yea may try hardwire fuel pump if need be but should be able to test its power circuit etc.. Should have access to service manuals.

[Fast Eddie]

Will look into cam/crank sensors actually.. Might b possible a related issue. Although one would think a CEL would pop up

[Rosssub]

The Clicking Relay could be an Idle Up for Auto/Gear Engagement, or Idle Up for Air Con.

The Tacho Feed comes straight from the ECU, so must be an Earth/Electrical Fault somewhere? No Earth Straps missing or loose?

What\'s your Alternator putting out at Idle?

[Fast Eddie]

Alternator output is 14.4/14.5v at idle and at 4,000rpm and all inbetween, incredibly stable, didn\'t fluctuate at all through all the rpm range.

Does anyone have a picture or list of all the earth points in the engine bay etc. I have only found 2 earth points, one by the battery/LH head light and another on the transmission/block mounting bolts/point under the intercooler.

So far can\'t see any plugs undone or anything loose.

I already found the Exhaust control valve only moves 15mm when the manual says 30mm travel and a donor RS legacy did the 30mm travel under check condition in Subaru select monitor. How this would effect the running of the vehicle I\'m not sure.. at worst case scenario if the valve was always open and spooling the secondary turbo would that cause all this misfiring and bogging down etc? What about an exhaust leak? just seems like odd symptoms.

Yea, next on my to do list is to try a set of 4 good coils in it, and try a spare ECV which I hope to just bolt onto the current turbo in the car rather than having to take the whole turbo off.

Shes a head scratcher.. found a tiny exhaust leak at primary turbo to downpipe/exhaust flange.. its bugger all though and I\'v seen cars run OK with worse leaks and noisier.

[Fast Eddie]

Oh can anyone help re-power steering. Is there a fuse somewhere for the solenoid on the power steering rack?

I have only found 1 fuse box and that\'s the one in the engine bay by the window washer bottle. is there another one?

Looking for a fuse or relay related to power steering please. I have a power steering light on the dash, power steering still OK, a little heavy but not completely dead. I think this BG5 has a hi/lo steering speed that is switched with the solenoid on the rack maybe? I have hazy information..

[rslegy]

its either the rack or the little computer that controls it but not to sure where it is located on the BG5

[Fast Eddie]

If anyone has info bout steering light on dash and info regards solenoids, relays fuses thàt would be mint.

I put a different Exhaust valve control servo/pump actuator thing and it has made a difference to engine running for sure. It still bogs down now, feels like too much fuel or boost or not enough spark. Basically bogs down backfires and misfires. But have def made a change with the ECV actuator swap. Just going outside now to try get correct rod adjustment/setup as i just threaded it on a few turns. And will hook up a boost gauge to see whats goin on now.

[Fast Eddie]

Ok, without knowing what i\'m doing and wound the ECV actuator rod right in so its at its shortest. Car ran worse than with it wound all the way out to its longest length without the rod falling off.

5psi boost before it starts misfiring/backfiring. Occasionally during the backfiring/misfiring the boost will continue to rise to 8/10psi before tacho shuts down and needle drops to zero. Release accel and it will come back to life.

Safe to say all my test drives stay below 4,500 rpm and for the most part should just be on primary turbo/possibly spooling secondary.

I must figure out how to set up ECV rod length to factory setting.. I found a thread on here but it just says wind it all the way until exhaust note changes. I have to unscrew rod completely to open valve to change sound at idle. If i just get thread started 1 turn it already sounds like a subi.. So yea that tutorial not helping me.

[Rosssub]

Set your ECV Actuator Rod, so it holds shut. Maybe 3mm of Diaphragm tension on the Rod.

From the Closed position, you can force the Rod downwards with pliers. Opening the ECV, then hear/feel when it closes.

I\'d be checking all Vac Hose Routing, specifically hoses:

1 to IACV

5 to Top of ECV Actuator

6 to Bottom of ECV Actuator

8 to Secondary Relief Valve

Then maybe try another Coil Pack? Vac Leaks/Boost Leaks/Failing Fuel Pump.

[Fast Eddie]

Cool will try set up ECV better tomorrow, think its too tight at the mo. have already checked hose routing and leaks etc. Next weekend I\'ll have 4 known good coils to swap in. Think the ECV set up properly should help. Its got a known good ECV actuator fitted now, will hook it up on subaru select monitor tomorrow and see if the ecv actuator rod travels 30mm now. Old ecv actuator only moved 15mm so thats why i swapped it out for another one (solenoid appeared ok although question: should i be able to blow/suck through hose 6/solenoid with no power to solenoid or solenoid off ?)

[Rosssub]

Yes, hose 6 - ECV Negative Solenoid, switches to its Filter/Vent with no power.

Edit: You should hear it venting inside the BBOD.

[Fast Eddie]

Yip if i put it in diagnostic/test mode you can hear a number of them, one clicks and vents.

I played with the rod and car runs a lot better with the rod fairly loose/valve open. Sure its gutless but no misfiring and you can floor it and rev it out. If you wind the rod in then primary spools up early but starts misfiring as soon as boost builds up/4 or 5 psi and anything more than 1/4 throttle. Got some things to try to check ecv itself incase its leaking and i have those coils to try

[Rosssub]

Sounds like it might be running out of fuel at WOT, or leaning out due to a Boost leak (afr). Have you got access to an air compressor? For a Boost leak test.

Block your intake post AFM, with a can or jar. Then feed 10psi into the Manifold through a Vac hose, any boost leaks will be obvious.

[Fast Eddie]

yea sort of, if it only did it at WOT it would make more sense, but this symptom can happen at almost no throttle (edit also at no boost) as well, it seems to depend a little on ambient temp, engine temp (runs a lot better once everything is warm but can still do it once in a while) and yea - its a tricky one but I think I\'m in the right area with the ECV..

wish it would throw a code though.

Yip I have access to almost anything since I work as a mechanic down here in Dunedin, better yet I work for Subaru so I have access to the diagnostic computers and factory service and diagnostic manuals, believe me I have spent a few hours on this following manuals on Code 66 and the twin turbo system. Tried to pressure up the intake today and find a leak but shes pretty leak free.. Nothing obvious anyway.

Have spent a fair bit of time at the start looking for vac and boost leaks so I am pretty confident there isn\'t a leak, can\'t rule it out for sure thought I guess.

There is an electrical aspect to it (the relay click and the idle up/idle down that keeps changing when it feels like it, more so when its cold engine and cold ambient air) and also a mechanical issue in the ecv too.

Got a new ecv on it at the mo, it still doesn\'t move more than 15mm, it should move 30mm.. the IACV moves the expected 10-12mm (from memory) so either it is a setup issue with the ecv push rod which I am fiddling with at the moment, or the solenoid is weak? It still operates as it should.. but perhaps I don\'t know.. it is somehow not enough vac to open the ecv fully...

And ofcourse I have to coils to try this weekend too, but I recon they are probably ok. Never drops a cyl or runs on 3.. Infact at times playing wit hthe ecv etc and feathering the throttle I have managed to get a pretty nice pull on primary... hard to pull off tho, mostly back firing.

Will try few things tomorrow/sat and report back.

Edit: I must check the earths again though, I just remembered. I didn\'t look at manual at work but I was working on a BH5 today and noticed it had an earth by the washer bottle and one by the BBOD, mine has neither.. BG5 different? Anyone know all the earth locations for the BG5?

cheers for the help

[Rosssub]

The ECV opens half way with Vac, through the bottom hose. Then opens completely with boost pressure through the top port.

During Idle/Diagnostic Mode, there is no boost pressure to open the ECV completely.

I only ever saw about 15mm max from mine in test mode, in perfect working order.

[les666]

Might also pay to check the voltage at the tps if you haven\'t already...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Fast Eddie]

 Rosssub said:

The ECV opens half way with Vac, through the bottom hose. Then opens completely with boost pressure through the top port.

During Idle/Diagnostic Mode, there is no boost pressure to open the ECV completely.

I only ever saw about 15mm max from mine in test mode, in perfect working order.

OK, but let me mention this - I have tested two RS legacy\'s and a GT legacy at work (1994-1996) and all 3 moved 30mm under the Subaru select monitor valve check mode.. ? The Subaru service manual itself states that the actuator rod must move 30mm under Subaru select monitor or the ecv or control system is faulty. (SSM - this is the diagnostic computer which I am sure you know, it can do more than just connecting the plugs under the dash can)

[Fast Eddie]

 les666 said:

Might also pay to check the voltage at the tps if you haven\'t already...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

yea had done, it was normal I believe - I don\'t remember the readings now, but again, had the Subaru technical/service manual there and it was bang on/no cause for concern. How ever I\'v got another photocopied page somewhere about testing the voltages at the ecu itself too.. maybe later - it is pisssing down in Dunedin today - bloody house is leaking water.

[Fast Eddie]

I think I\'ll fiddle with the ECV a bit more, do the coils, check a few voltages and the earths and then I\'ll take some short videos of the cars symptoms etc and post them up with links sometime this weekend.

I have an RS legacy coming tomorrow to compare ECV valve movement and any voltages/readouts etc.. basically a good donor car to play with to try help my one. Might be a bit clearer after a few videos.. or I may even fix it! fingers crossed haha..

Wish I had taken a wiring diagram home from work for the long weekend though, would like to know all the earth locations if anyone can help there please?