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Mcintosh Front Speaker Replacement


heylinb4nz

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Sounds like my front left woofer has started to perish. I read in a below thread you can use Vifa\Tymphany 6.5" 8 ohm woofers. But cant find anything in NZ or reasonably priced. Wondering if the following would be a candidate ?

http://www.surplustronics.co.nz/products/576-wide-range-kevlar-cone-woofers-65-inch-

Alternatively i though perhaps rebuilding them with new foam\rubber

http://www.simplyspeakers.com/speaker-rubber-edge-repair-kit-rsk-6.5.html

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I'm assuming they are 8ohm, as they are being run from a Macintosh amp somewhere, and being run in parallel with the tweeter, which is probably also 8ohm, letting the amp see a 4ohm load over the 4 speakers.

Replacing it with another 8ohm speaker, is definitely the best option in that respect, if you're not wanting to bypass the amp.

What speakers you can find in an 8ohm configuration will just come down to a google search, I don't know of any off hand

So that one from Jaycar would definitely be an adequate replacement. If you're replacing one, then I'd recommend replacing the other side as well. if one has bust, chances are the other isn't far off busting either.

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 Scoobydoo said:
I'm assuming they are 8ohm, as they are being run from a Macintosh amp somewhere, and being run in parallel with the tweeter, which is probably also 8ohm, letting the amp see a 4ohm load over the 4 speakers.

Replacing it with another 8ohm speaker, is definitely the best option in that respect, if you're not wanting to bypass the amp.

What speakers you can find in an 8ohm configuration will just come down to a google search, I don't know of any off hand

So that one from Jaycar would definitely be an adequate replacement. If you're replacing one, then I'd recommend replacing the other side as well. if one has bust, chances are the other isn't far off busting either.

Yep only been looking at 8 Ohms ones.

At the moment its between the Jaycar Response (which ive had good experience with their car stuff). and some Vifa ones I found on TradeMe, but the seller wants $140 for 6, I only need 2 :(.

If anyone else here is keen to replace theirs Ill buy all 6 and sell the remaining ones at $50 a pair.

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Personally, I'd definitely go with the Vifa ones. I'm sure you would be able to flick the others off to recoup the costs, but probably not straight away, if you don't mind waiting until the buyers come along. Otherwise re-advertise them on Trademe again..

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 Scoobydoo said:
Personally, I'd definitely go with the Vifa ones. I'm sure you would be able to flick the others off to recoup the costs, but probably not straight away, if you don't mind waiting until the buyers come along. Otherwise re-advertise them on Trademe again..

I could possibly use another 2 in my Colt.

Whats the deal with running a pair of 8 ohms in my rear doors and powering off the headunit ? (Pioneer 4X50) I currently dont use any of my HU channels as I run Amps for my fronts and sub.

The rear doors are treated with Dynamat and about optimal size for 6.5" mid bass driver so might provide a little extra bass in the rear.

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Headunits and most modern amps are designed to run 4ohm speakers. You can run 8ohms but they will only be getting half the rated power. The reason the factory ones are 8ohms, is that they will be running in parallel with the tweeter which would be also 8ohm, so it gives the amp a 4ohm load. This is assuming it is running off the factory Macintosh amp, and not an aftermarket one. The Macintosh amps are normally found under the drivers seat.

However, if it is an aftermarket headunit, then you should first be checking to see if the macintosh amp is even connected. If not, then you should be using 4ohm speakers.

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  • Admin

Are the fronts and sub the stock mcintosh ones? And run off the stock amp?

If you don't have the mcintosh HU why not just pull the whole lot out and replace all the speakers and get a cheap aftermarket amp. Way cleaner that way.

The mcintosh system only sounded good because everything was well matched, as soon as you go chopping and changing speakers that ballance will go right out the window.

Edited by Andy_Mac
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 Andy_Mac said:
Are the fronts and sub the stock mcintosh ones? And run off the stock amp?

If you don't have the mcintosh HU why not just pull the whole lot out and replace all the speakers and get a cheap aftermarket amp. Way cleaner that way.

The mcintosh system only sounded good because everything was well matched, as soon as you go chopping and changing speakers that ballance will go right out the window.

Yeah its all the stock stuff including the headunit, im running an AnyCar MP3 unit in glovebox to provide MP3 capability. Im hoping I can get a replacement 6.5" speaker close enough to the Mcintosh specs and design, so far one forum member reckons the Vifa woofers sound better than stock, i'm also eying up the response 6.5" woofers from Jaycar at $41 each that are similar design (8ohm, good sensitivity, paper cone, lowish RMS rating 60RMS)

Really looking for a sub $100 fix as the car will be sold in 2-3 years time, and its going to cost $1200-$1500 to do a half decent amp+components+sub+headunit. Time is also a luxury for me with a newborn (as well as money).

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Been doing a bot of crash course in small theile parameters today and comparing Vifa, Jaycar Response and Cheap Surplustronics Kevlar speakers (their 6.5" models).

Interestingly enough (on paper anyway) the Surplustronic Kevlar 6.5" ($35) seems to win on a range of values that make it an ideal mid bass speaker for small enclosure (ie car door). While the Vifa pretty much loses out on everything by Frequency response.

Key specs of the Surplustronics

- Good Re 7ohms (closer to rated 8 Ohm the better) Vifa was 5.7

- Good frequency response 50hz, Vifa slightly better at 46.9hz

- Excellent QMS of 7.1 means small enclosure suitability, Vifa was 2.6

- Vas of 10 vs 31, means better control of woofer cone

- Higher sensitivity 88db vs 87 for the Vifa

- Lower RMS (125rms) vs (160rms for Vifa), hopefully means small McIntosh amp can drive it.

The jaycar Response was sort of inbetween but had terrible QMS of 2.02, meaning it was suited to a large enclosure

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OK after a bit more reading and self debate, I ended up getting the Vifa 6.5" Woofers (2 for $50) since another member had already used them (rather rely on ears than specs on paper). Also managed to fix the stock sub vibration last night, seems the foam edge rubs against the outer plastic ring of the woofer and causes the noise, most likely due to deformation with age, so applying some pressure at that point using some closed cell foam wedged between woofer and parcel tray seems to make it compliant and doesnt affect the bass output.

Hopefully enough to get a couple more years of good music before selling.

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OK this is now officially a review thread, replaced the fronts with these on weekend

http://www.jaycar.co.nz/Sight-%26-Sound---Home/Hi-Fi-Speakers-%26-Accessories/Component-Speakers/6-5-Paper-Cone-Woofer-Midrange/p/CW2194

Had to ditch the factory brackets and secure them direct to the door (magnet size was too big to fit through the spacer hole).

Must say for a $41 speaker (each), they produce a very nice punchy mid bass and almost as much bass as the factory 8" sub. Ive use Response brand before in the past, and as per the older models, they don't dissapoint.

They dont upset the balance of the system, and id rate them a 10-15% improvement over stock.

Settings after install

Bass +2

Treble -2

Fade - Front +9

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 Scoobydoo said:
They wouldn't fit the factory spacer? I'm guessing the weather shield didn't fit over the magnet? You could've just cut the shield part off and still used the spacer?

Nah the basket didnt quite squeeze flush with the factory spacer ring. I understand the Vifa woofers are drop in, but for $41 each and the sound output I was happy. Debating now whether or not to get some foam baffles to go behind the woofers to protect them from the elements since I ditched the factory spacer with weather sheild.

Do they need them ?

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  • Admin

Pointless facts for this thread:

-If you have an 8 ohm woofer and an 8 ohm tweeter on the same channel via a crossover the amp will still see 8 ohms on the channel.

-A door doesn't work like a "small enclosure", it is best approximated by an infinite baffle model (no enclosure at all), and then only if you make a reasonable effort to seal the front half from the back half. Car speakers (particularly 6x9's) are generally built to work best in an IB configuration, which is why it makes me die a little on the inside when you see 6x9's in those stupid parcel shelf boxes that might be 3 litres on a good day. EDIT: And it's probably why those Jaycar speakers sound decent, with Qms of about 2.0 they will have decent cone control without any help from the enclosure.

Edited by boon
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 boon said:
Pointless facts for this thread:

-If you have an 8 ohm woofer and an 8 ohm tweeter on the same channel via a crossover the amp will still see 8 ohms on the channel.

-A door doesn't work like a "small enclosure", it is best approximated by an infinite baffle model (no enclosure at all), and then only if you make a reasonable effort to seal the front half from the back half. Car speakers (particularly 6x9's) are generally built to work best in an IB configuration, which is why it makes me die a little on the inside when you see 6x9's in those stupid parcel shelf boxes that might be 3 litres on a good day. EDIT: And it's probably why those Jaycar speakers sound decent, with Qms of about 2.0 they will have decent cone control without any help from the enclosure.

On the subject of QMS

Im looking into doing the factory sub, and am dicing up between

a) a GRS-8 8" Subwoofer (100rms, 4ohm, infinite baffle)

b) a 6.5" subwoofer of some sort

Im leaning toward 6.5" mounted in an 8"-6.5" adaptor\spacer (for easier install). Then layering up the parcel shelf with some dynamat (or not).

Is there any suitable 6.5" suitable for infinate baffle ? perhaps another one of those Jaycar 6.5" ?

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  • Admin

The Fs on that Jaycar woofer is way too high, and the frequency response is poo-tacular under 50hz. Nice midbass driver, terrible subwoofer.

Buy Scoob's little DD 6.5 subwoofer, awesome little driver, will knock your socks off.

EDIT: Why all the home audio drivers? There's a bunch of decent 8" subwoofers out there too, JBL, Focal and DD all make good ones off the top of my head. I think DLS does a very good one too but it's $$$.

Edited by boon
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 boon said:
The Fs on that Jaycar woofer is way too high, and the frequency response is poo-tacular under 50hz. Nice midbass driver, terrible subwoofer.

Buy Scoob's little DD 6.5 subwoofer, awesome little driver, will knock your socks off.

EDIT: Why all the home audio drivers? There's a bunch of decent 8" subwoofers out there too, JBL, Focal and DD all make good ones off the top of my head. I think DLS does a very good one too but it's $$$.

Home audio for all the front stuff as its 8ohm. But yeah ive been looking at all the 8" options in car audio and very little I can find that are

a) high sensitivty (>89db)

b) closer to 100rms power

c) mounting depth <4 inches

ill look into that DD 6.5, is Scoob selling his :) or do I need to pay retail

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Noticed on my drive home last night and this morning that the new woofers make a harsh screeching sound on the highs (inc some vocals). Quite hard on the ears, pretty sure the baskets were mounted flush when I installed, and certainly didnt notice any harsh sound on my initial testing tracks.

Definately different to what I heard straight after install as I dont really want to listen to them now.

What would cause such an issue ?

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OK did some sound testing last night and narrowed it down to the left side 3" midrange just above the woofer. It seems to be producing the highs alot louder than it should. Without being an electronics expert my take is

a) the new woofer impedance (although it says 8 ohms) is slightly less and thus the left side draws a little extra power, I recall on install of new woofers the system sounded a little biased to the left.

b) the built in crossover on the 3" has failed (perhaps capacitor failed) allowing highs through

Does anyway have any other suggestions ?

Thinking ill either baffle that 3" with some foam behind the grill, or take the opportunity to upgrade my 3" with something nicer from parts-exchange-com.

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  • 2 years later...
On 6/08/2015 at 10:02 AM, heylinb4nz said:

OK did some sound testing last night and narrowed it down to the left side 3" midrange just above the woofer. It seems to be producing the highs alot louder than it should. Without being an electronics expert my take is

a) the new woofer impedance (although it says 8 ohms) is slightly less and thus the left side draws a little extra power, I recall on install of new woofers the system sounded a little biased to the left.

b) the built in crossover on the 3" has failed (perhaps capacitor failed) allowing highs through

Does anyway have any other suggestions ?

Thinking ill either baffle that 3" with some foam behind the grill, or take the opportunity to upgrade my 3" with something nicer from parts-exchange-com.

 

Where did you get to with this @heylinb4nz?

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