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EJ25 Hybrid questions...


knockoutgiant

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Righty so I've got a few questions on my yet to be built engine.

1) Has anyone got any ideas on power levels the EJ257 stock rods can take? Am aiming for 250kw but it will most likely be over that. I've heard the stock pistons are iffy so will be changing them for forged ones and don't really want to split the block!

2) Innovate Subaru in Auckland. Has anyone dealt with them/know what kind of quality work they produce? Looking at a 2nd hand EJ257 short block that's been rebuilt by them.

3) Will be machining my Dual AVCS EJ20Y heads to match the EJ257 block. What do I need to look out for in terms of clearence/compression ratios/head gaskets etc etc to ensure this build goes smoothly?

This is my first go really on trying to do anything actual engine wise and I'd like it to go well aha, so, ANY information that could be of any use to me please say as I can't really afford for this to go wrong aha. Any and all help is muchly appreciated! :D

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  • 1 year later...
On 11/10/2015 at 0:30 AM, Subirex Automotive said:

my suggestion will be go for a closed deck or ej207 2.1 stroker setup over 2.5. 257 are not that good in holding higher revs. 2.0l are better options and good torque specially when you stroke them. if you want a good build done, i will be able to help you out on that.

well thats my opinion, someone might think otherwise.

How is the torque in low rpm (before boost kicks in) with stroked ej207 vs standard ej207? I'm trying to decide what motor to replace my dying motor with in an auto bp5. Has slightly bigger turbo and the trans shifts too low when cruzing to keep it in its powerband so drives like crap  unless I manual shift it. I'm leaning toward the 257 but open to options. Will also be using ej20x/y heads and aiming toward the 230 to 250kw mark. Cheers

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36 minutes ago, snowflake009 said:

How is the torque in low rpm (before boost kicks in) with stroked ej207 vs standard ej207? I'm trying to decide what motor to replace my dying motor with in an auto bp5. Has slightly bigger turbo and the trans shifts too low when cruzing to keep it in its powerband so drives like crap  unless I manual shift it. I'm leaning toward the 257 but open to options. Will also be using ej20x/y heads and aiming toward the 230 to 250kw mark. Cheers

 

Is this the vf murch hybrid?

 

If it is, more displacement will probably choke it and cause you to taper boost in the top end resulting in similar power numbers to a 2l with vf.

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24 minutes ago, evowrx said:

 

Is this the vf murch hybrid?

 

If it is, more displacement will probably choke it and cause you to taper boost in the top end resulting in similar power numbers to a 2l with vf.

Yea that's the one. By similar do you think the 2l will be better in peak numbers or will it be pretty even? I was leaning toward the 257 for better drivability and torque down low as most of my driving is around town. 

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25 minutes ago, snowflake009 said:

Yea that's the one. By similar do you think the 2l will be better in peak numbers or will it be pretty even? I was leaning toward the 257 for better drivability and torque down low as most of my driving is around town. 

 

I think it would have less potential for power/torque than the 2l. Would be a storm down low but that'd be about it. No idea how the tiptronic would affect that.

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a 2.5 will spool faster due to its bigger capacity however will not rev as much as a 2.0... i myself have a ej257 DESTROKED to a 2.3 so am still able to rev it out to 7200rpm. it would spool my gtx3076 with a .76 exh housing at 1.5 bar of boost at 4200rpm

 

my boss currently has a 257 in his rally car and it puffs the vf out too easily.

 

 have a mint 2.5 crank for sale for a 257 build if intrested

Edited by Ninja8)
got info wrong
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12 hours ago, Ninja8) said:

a 2.5 will spool faster due to its bigger capacity however will not rev as much as a 2.0... i myself have a ej257 DESTROKED to a 2.3 so am still able to rev it out to 7200rpm. it would spool my gtx3076 with a .76 exh housing at 1.5 bar of boost at 4200rpm

 

my boss currently has a 257 in his rally car and it puffs the vf out too easily. 

 

let me know if your interested in any parts for your build as i have a brand new set of .25mm oversized mahle forged pistons for a 2.0 Build and a semi closed ej207 block to go with it. 

 

and also have a mint 2.5 crank for your 257 build. 

Thanks some good info. Any power figures on the rally car for interests sake? The turbo ive got is a machined vf22 with p25 hot side so im hoping it will have a bit more top end than the standard vf. Does the p25 flow more than the p20 that comes factory on the 2.5 or is the difference negligible? 

Cool will let you know if I need any bits when I figure out what I'm doing 🤙

12 hours ago, evowrx said:

Can you reset the tcu so it relearn shifts?

Yeah will give it a go. Got to load the free ssm onto the laptop and see if it works.

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13 minutes ago, evowrx said:

The p25 is good for around another 10wkw from what I've seen on same dynos with similar setups factory heads, same fuel, boost, mods etc.

 

That's on 2l and regardless which housing its the same turbine wheel which is more the restriction.

15 minutes ago, evowrx said:

The p25 is good for around another 10wkw from what I've seen on same dynos with similar setups factory heads, same fuel, boost, mods etc.

 

That's on 2l and regardless which housing its the same turbine wheel which is more the restriction. On second thought being a murch hybrid it may have a clipped turbine which would help your cause. Still reckon its to small for anything over a 2l tho.

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That's good to know tho putting the turbo aside. If it doesn't do What I want I can always change it later on. I've done the mods so anything with a p25 flange will fit. What I'm after is good responsive street car that I can give an occasional thrash on the track (not competitively just a bit of fun) as far as I'm aware a 207 build will be a lot cheaper. A crate short block for around $2600. And the factory internals should be fine for my power goals. On the other hand I do miss the response and don't mind paying extra to get that or some of that back and I don't think the stock 207 will do it without going smaller turbo which defeats the purpose of the upgrade in the first place. As far as my options go I could do a stroked 207, destroked 257 or a 257. I'm guessing the 257 with a minimum of forged pistons will be the most cost effective considering what I'm after? 

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You have the perfect turbo to achieve your goals on a 2l. Its not a lot bigger than a vf which spool every time you sneeze. What power is it making and did you sort the issues it was having? 

 

Putting a bigger turbo on a bigger engine is going to put you in the same place for more money.

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1 hour ago, evowrx said:

You have the perfect turbo to achieve your goals on a 2l. Its not a lot bigger than a vf which spool every time you sneeze. What power is it making and did you sort the issues it was having? 

 

Putting a bigger turbo on a bigger engine is going to put you in the same place for more money.

Its not detonating like it was but they got to a certain point and it started to make the same noise as the one that let go so they dialed it back to make it safe(ish). So very low on power atm. Putting it down to high compression and a tired motor. They were suprised it lasted the weekend at Hampton downs.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but for example if this turbo is good for 240kw on a 2.0L will it not make that on a 2.5 but sooner and start to run out of puff higher in the rev range?

 

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I'd be inclined to think it would hit a wall in mid range circa 5k and torque would drop fast rather than taper off. 

 

Mate had a 2.5 with vf36 and restrictor and it was really impressive down low. It worked well due to setup but on the road unrestricted very unimpressive.

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1 hour ago, evowrx said:

I'd be inclined to think it would hit a wall in mid range circa 5k and torque would drop fast rather than taper off. 

 

Mate had a 2.5 with vf36 and restrictor and it was really impressive down low. It worked well due to setup but on the road unrestricted very unimpressive.

Thanks good info. I think I'll have to get some stuff priced up and see if I can do something with the trans to get it to work better

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On 20/08/2017 at 7:36 PM, evowrx said:

 

@boostin can the tcu be reset to relearn shifts?

It can, but relearns are done to smooth out shifts and is all done at very small throttle open angles. It sounds to me like he needs a reflash with a custom rom. I'd be wary of banging too much power through an old worn trans though.

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13 hours ago, boostin said:

It can, but relearns are done to smooth out shifts and is all done at very small throttle open angles. It sounds to me like he needs a reflash with a custom rom. I'd be wary of banging too much power through an old worn trans though.

Is that a refresh of the Tcu? I didn't think the could be flashed. I have had the ecu flashed and I'd didn't change the shifts. I am worried how the trans will hold up hense why I'm not looking for massive power. But hey if it does pack in it will be a rebuild or replace. They are pretty common so no drama

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Ive been running a stock 257 shortblock with EJ20k/v4sti heads for nearly 10 years at about 260kwatw.

This engine hates small turbos. Also not having boost is not as dramatic as on the 2L as the off-boost torque is so much higher. The engine likes a big turbo (bigger than a VF anyway) but ~400bhp is about the limit. This engine has also done hundreds of track laps, as long as you keep at least oil temps down it seems to be pretty happy.

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12 minutes ago, Optical said:

Ive been running a stock 257 shortblock with EJ20k/v4sti heads for nearly 10 years at about 260kwatw.

This engine hates small turbos. Also not having boost is not as dramatic as on the 2L as the off-boost torque is so much higher. The engine likes a big turbo (bigger than a VF anyway) but ~400bhp is about the limit. This engine has also done hundreds of track laps, as long as you keep at least oil temps down it seems to be pretty happy.

 

Any work on the chambers? 

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On 8/22/2017 at 9:42 PM, boostin said:

Yeah definitely. I remember reading a write-up on one of the Aus forums by a guy who supercharged his 6, then modded the TCU so it shifted hard. Had all 4 chirping on upshifts under power. 

 

Is it actually a TCU flash or just messing with the requested torque to raise the line pressure to stop slip. 

Sounds like Matt can do More TCU stuff these days but most i've read about went this direction to get the desired result. Know he messed around with @sobanoodle's to the point where it never actually felt the need to go into 5th which he may have not found too fun xD

 

http://forum.liberty.asn.au/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=21405

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