What to buy? Manual Outback/Legacy

[jmz]

Hi, hoping to get some advice. 

 

I've been looking for a manual Subaru wagon for a while now, mainly for road trips, no commuting. Former Gen II GTB owner, ended painfully in an engine replacement immediately followed by it being stolen. 

 

I've been mainly looking for 4cyl manual 4th gen outbacks, which are fairly rare. Am I right in thinking that they should really be looking for replacement head gaskets by the time you get onto a third cam belt somewhere north of 200k? Do they have any prospect of making it past 300k serviceable kms with just new HGs?

 

Would I in fact be better served with a Gen III turbo Legacy, trade some HG issues for turbo woes, and more tidy examples around? Would I miss the ground clearance?

 

Any comments on these listings?

 

Outback: https://trademe.co.nz/1256465932

 

Legacy 1: https://trademe.co.nz/1253299264

 

Legacy 2: https://trademe.co.nz/1255792820

 

Legacy 3: https://trademe.co.nz/1260250092

[Subru]

If it was me, I would chose a legacy.

[Jono24]

I guessing Legacy 1 will be a Rev C and legacy 2&3 will be rev D based on years but you will need to check on the id plate under the bonnet. Rev D legacy's are much preferred over an earlier revision and you will probably only appreciate it if you buy an earlier revision!

 

No comment on the outback, but the black legacy manual with sun roofs is reasonably rare from my searching. You really need to see them and base on condition for the legacy turbos, they vary in condition a lot.

[sobanoodle]

5 minutes ago, Jono24 said:

 

I guessing Legacy 1 will be a Rev C and legacy 2&3 will be rev D

 

All three are rev.D

 

[Stodart]

Have you considered  a 3.0R   (without the  turbo hassles,  headgasket issues of EJ25s,    EJ cam belt changing issues )  

 

Unfortunately  3 Gen BP 3.0R Outback only available with 5EAT. 

 

4th  Gen BL / BP Legacy 3.0R  has 6MT option as well JDM ex Japan 

 

A regularly serviced EJ 2.5 will easily do more than 300K +  along with head gasket replacement at some stage.

 

They [EJ 251(BH)  / EJ253(BP)]  headgaskets usually weep oil /coolant externally.   Mine leaked coolant from the left rear head   - onto the crossmember - not obvious to detect. (only dripped / weeped while engine running.)

 

When I replaced the  headgaskets (with MLS ones) and resurfaced heads -  on previous 01 Gen 2 BH9  D/R Outback at 255K  2 years ago  the engine was still in good condition. (while engine out replaced clutch as well)   Apart from this  these cars give few if any problems.

 

In some ways regret selling it as it was the not so common  manual dual range.  

But was seduced by the extra power  of 3.0R Outback and   for ground clearance and ability to go offroad (live in a mountainous rural area) and having  really liked the previous Outback for those reasons.

If Legacys had more ground clearance i would have bought one years ago  - instead hung on to my 86 Leone til 09 then got 1st Outback.

If BP Legacys had more ground clearance I would have got a 3.0R 6MT.  

 

The only advise I can offer is that its a trade off between the the better handling lower Legacys with  turbo performance with   associated issues against  the 2.5  Outback with impending / eventual headhgasket issues. similar to yourthought

 

Your choice depends on how you're going to use the car.  ie (Outdoor / off road interests etc or straight highway use)

 

 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2017 by Stodart
omission

[JGM]

First thing to decide - BH or BP? I'm guessing this is price driven...?

 

By the sounds of things I have the OB you want (lucky me) - there were some similar to mine (facelift, 2.5i, 5MT) on trade me a month or so ago.

 

As for the head gasket issues - mine is sitting approx. 170k kms without any major issues.  This is definitely something to be judged on a case by case basis though.

 

11 hours ago, Stodart said:

Unfortunately  3 Gen BP 3.0R Outback only available with 5EAT. 

 

I would have bought a 3.0R BPE if they came in 6MT fyi.

[SpeedySub]

I have a 2.5 BP outback (auto though), and mine is sitting at about 180kms, and no issues.

As has been said above if you're going more offroad go the outback.

[TNHSTI]

I would definitely recommend a 3.0r 6MT and I say this as my first car was a 1995 Legacy GT then went to a 2001 GTB E-tune, then a 2007 Legacy B4 6MT then a 2000 WRX STi now a 2006 Legacy 3.0R 6MT

 

And through all these cars my best choice was by far the 3.0R its so much more refined than turbo, no you dont get the turbo rush, but no cambelt and no head gasket issues is a good bonus

 

In saying this though I loved my GTB E-tune BH Wagon only thing about it was i had detonation issues even on 98 octane but I guess this could have been addressed with a reflash

 

As other people have said its really what you are using your car for 

[sobanoodle]

Highly doubt he'll be able to fit a 6MT Legacy within the budget ($5-6k I guess?). 

[jmz]

Yeah, 5-6k is about right.

 

It's too bad you can't get a 5MT 3.0L Outback. 

 

I have a friend in Wellington who I trust to check out cars. I will ask him to check out that Outback for any signs of early HG leakage. 

 

What price would I be looking at, incl parts, for a HG/cambelt/water pump/misc gasket job on a 2004 2.5 Outback (in Christchurch)? Does it depend much on the condition of the block surfaces?

 

I can factor it in to any offer I might make. 

[THUNDA]

dude! right now it is possible for your to purchase a BC5 in average condition off trademe!

 

you probably thinking "omigeeed!" because they are seldom for sale in manual sedan and there are currently 2 on trademe right now! and they are both reasonably priced!

(there is a 3rd for sale on trademe for 11,000 if you want to spend and extra 7k for hardly any reason at all!)

 

aside from the beauty of the BC5 there is also the obvious "perks" of

- BOXER Intercooler Turbo Full Time 4WD

- AMAZING handling with the factory suspension!

- you will be admired by all passersby when they hear that original EJ20G deep SUBARU rumble cruising past them

- heavey footed? crash often? no need to worry about expensive parts here!

- ALOT of the subaru single turbo engines/parts which superceed the RS BC5 can be used as upgrades! no more pouring your cash into the rubbish with new expensive parts that arnt very cool!

-  Car "check engine" light comming on while driving? the BC5 RS was the FIRST subaru EVER to have the feature of the simple "unplug" - you can diagnose the fault using on board diagnostics and once your satisfied, you can unplug the sensor for it and the car will keep going like nothings wrong!

 

Dont delay

 

Choose BC5 Today!

 

 

 

[TNHSTI]

11 minutes ago, THUNDA said:

dude! right now it is possible for your to purchase a BC5 in average condition off trademe!

 

you probably thinking "omigeeed!" because they are seldom for sale in manual sedan and there are currently 2 on trademe right now! and they are both reasonably priced!

(there is a 3rd for sale on trademe for 11,000 if you want to spend and extra 7k for hardly any reason at all!)

 

aside from the beauty of the BC5 there is also the obvious "perks" of

- BOXER Intercooler Turbo Full Time 4WD

- AMAZING handling with the factory suspension!

- you will be admired by all passersby when they hear that original EJ20G deep SUBARU rumble cruising past them

- heavey footed? crash often? no need to worry about expensive parts here!

- ALOT of the subaru single turbo engines/parts which superceed the RS BC5 can be used as upgrades! no more pouring your cash into the rubbish with new expensive parts that arnt very cool!

-  Car "check engine" light comming on while driving? the BC5 RS was the FIRST subaru EVER to have the feature of the simple "unplug" - you can diagnose the fault using on board diagnostics and once your satisfied, you can unplug the sensor for it and the car will keep going like nothings wrong!

 

Dont delay

 

Choose BC5 Today!

 

 

 

 

 

Haha you sound like a Subaru Salesman

[THUNDA]

Just now, V7STI1992 said:

 

 

Haha you sound like a Subaru Salesman

 

Haha, Nar im a builder, but if I could specialize in hoarding BC5s I would make it my full time "hobby"

[SpeedySub]

1 hour ago, jmz said:

What price would I be looking at, incl parts, for a HG/cambelt/water pump/misc gasket job on a 2004 2.5 Outback (in Christchurch)? Does it depend much on the condition of the block surfaces?

 

I can factor it in to any offer I might make. 

Give @gotasuby a PM and get a estimate from him. I had a quote from Crowesport for $950 for Cambelt and waterpump which was lower than the deal the caryard was offering at cost price!

 

Cost can go up if the heads need to be redecked (or whatever term is correct)

[carlon90]

I would choose Outback for extra ground clearance.

[JGM]

21 hours ago, carlon90 said:

I would choose Outback for extra ground clearance.

 

@ADIKT lmao