Jump to content
Please check your junk folder for registration emails ×
  • Current Donation Goals

    • Raised $0.00

JDM V11 Power Goals....Inputs?


Recommended Posts

I know its a long read...bare with me. 

 

Here again for some advice and past experiences from other peps. I'll try and be descriptive as to what I'm wanting and what has been currently done to the car. I have researched a bit about the subject.

 

So I own a JDM GRB EJ207T as of now mods wise worthy noting installed are,

 

HKS SSQV BOV

HKS Panel Filter

HKS M35i Heat 7 Sparkplug

HKS Legamax CBE (Resonator delete)

Custom downpipe and Testpipe

AEM 320LPH Fuel pump

Process West CAI (Not installed atm as it requires a tune)

 

I have read that stock internals on these STI's starts to get dodgy after 260kW mark (on this forum). I've read 400whp from America. I did read that it matters about the conservative of the tune more than anything. Basically I'm stuck between two options that being; 

 

1. Put my PW CAI intake on and take it for a tune and have a very conservative tune of around 20-22psi. I'm looking at 210-220kW - one tuner said I'd get around 230kW which seems a bit far fetched. Long story short I had it dyno run just recently and it made 195kW (Sad life it made more before) so the gains of 25kW is sort of low-ish for $1K cost wise vs output power.

 

2. I have been looking at upgrading the turbo which I'm only wanting a bolt-on turbo nothing serious. I looked into Blouch 1.5XTR 10CM Turbine and upgrade the Injectors to 1000CC (I forgot the brand but apparently it's similar to ID1000 maybe some one can plot a few brands out there for me - It comes down to about $129 + GST? The tuner of E&H has said that he has done many of these transplant and the recent one with 22 or 24PSI made roughly 275kW. They said with the above I have it would make an easy 260kW at 22psi.

 

GOALS: Planning on having the SI Drive tuned so that it can select Low and high Boost. I'm very content with 250-260kW at a max of 23psi (would be great if it was 21-22psi) high boost and about 200-220kW 17-18ish psi low boost. 

 

Q's: 

 

1. Does anyone have any experience with these turbos? 

2. I don't think I'd need ID Brand 1000CC injectors would I? I'm only after 250-260kW so reading up looks like 850cc would be sufficient as well and not needing Injector Dynamics specific brands?

3. I'm after a safe conservative tune with it packing 250-260kW  22-23psi; Am I risking of BLOWING up my engine?

-The car will never be on the track, always usually floor it on motorway off and on ramps. Casual boosting on free roads. Too much traffic everytime I drive home from work vice versa. 

-The car has been very well looked after from prev owners. 

4. With the 1K For tune I thought I might as well fork out another 2.9-3K for turb, injectors, and tune and get the power I'll be satisfied with. I know people always say You'd always want more but I don't think that's the case for me. I don't see the point street driving a 300kW car.

5. Anyone had 250-260kW and achieved around 400-450nm torque as that's what I'm hoping to get. I'm not even sure what the max torque on these blocks??

6. Link G2 or any other aftermarket ECU Worth it? Another guy was convincing me to get ECU first above all else as he said its plug and play and I would always want more power. If anyone can drop a few pointers wether I should do it or not? RN I say no to it as I don't want more power than 260kW and don't think I'd justify spending 1400-1600 on one? Thoughts?

 

A very helpful tuner I talked did not have good experience with the Blouch DOM 2.5 Turbo simply just down to cost and the amount of power it produced on their dyno. It made like 248kW on mid to high 20psi if I recall correctly. After they changed the turbo housing it made more than 300kW. 

 

Inputs will be appreciated greatly. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Retain the stock ecu and get it reflashed. Massive saving and it sounds like you dont need the additional functionality of a aftermarket ecu. Anything less than a G4+ would be a backwards step too.

 

Just get the ID injectors. Theyre good and tuners love them. If you want to save buy the ones DSRTurbo sells. Go for 1000s pretty much same money but future proofs for e85 if its readily available where you are.

 

The blouch stuff is hit and miss. Its just a Garrett chra with blouch housings. Other option is Kinugawa or Mamba but again hit and miss. If you go blouch get the 2.5 the 1.5 is too small.

 

Add a fmic to the list.

 

I would use dtech or pbms over e&h based on peoples experiences and results that match $ spent rather than mods. 

 

The engine may take the power or lay down its literally just a case of throwing dice.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, BeastGRB said:

6. Link G2 or any other aftermarket ECU Worth it? Another guy was convincing me to get ECU first above all else as he said its plug and play and I would always want more power. If anyone can drop a few pointers wether I should do it or not? RN I say no to it as I don't want more power than 260kW and don't think I'd justify spending 1400-1600 on one? Thoughts?

 

Just on that point, there is no plug-in ECU for a GRB that costs $1400-1600. Link do not make one for this model Subaru. If you were considering a plug-in ECU, budget at least $3250 +GST (thats for an Emtron. I dont know what the Motec plug-in is worth, but it will be at least the same money, if not more).

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

1 hour ago, evowrx said:

Retain the stock ecu and get it reflashed. Massive saving and it sounds like you dont need the additional functionality of a aftermarket ecu. Anything less than a G4+ would be a backwards step too.

 

Just get the ID injectors. Theyre good and tuners love them. If you want to save buy the ones DSRTurbo sells. Go for 1000s pretty much same money but future proofs for e85 if its readily available where you are.

 

The blouch stuff is hit and miss. Its just a Garrett chra with blouch housings. Other option is Kinugawa or Mamba but again hit and miss. If you go blouch get the 2.5 the 1.5 is too small.

 

Add a fmic to the list.

 

I would use dtech or pbms over e&h based on peoples experiences and results that match $ spent rather than mods. 

 

The engine may take the power or lay down its literally just a case of throwing dice.

 

Yep, exactly what I had in mind as well. Just backs up my original decision of me going factory ECU.

 

How much do the ID Injectors go for each if you happen to know? I still yet to have to search up pricing on those brands. Yep, will go for 1000cc. Honestly as for every build money is a subject of hindrance so if I was to save $300-400 on injectors alone I'd probably opt for the cheaper. I have had talked to Dtech  staff and they are selling 1000CC Injectors not ID brand tho so I'd assume they are sufficient/well if they have been tuning with the ones they are supplying. Is it something about the spray pattern? Or the reliability to opt for ID's? Yeah E85 is readily available here about 30min drive from me but again I don't see myself going for more power or drive that far to get gas everytime tbh. 

 

By hit and miss, by percentage do you think it missed it's target 70% of the time; target of good kW here in NZ? Im just blurting out here but could it factor that getting a bigger turbo 2.5 may hinder the output power vs getting a small efficient turbo such as the 1.5? I've considered the Blouch as for the 1.5XTR I can get them for 2.4K NZD Landed others are 3-4K alone. 

 

I've had conflicting inputs on the fmic. E&H mentions that the stock intercooler does just fine and adding a FMIC actually reduces the efficiency down a bit more compared to stock? Completely opposite opinion from Dtech which I have taken account. Is it a necessary option to go FMIC; would stock do just fine? Cutting the crash beam does not fancy me at all tbh. Going custom is still 'meh' for me. 

 

That's exactly what I'm tossing up between right now D-tech or E&H. I choose E&H simply because of power that they guarantee me and the location. With D-tech I don't mind driving over really but if I do experience problems in the future it would be a pain to drive over each time to sort it out and from their experience as well both their DOM 2.5 and 3.5 I think (Correct me if Im wrong?) but I believe the old versions did not make power advertised compared to the new XTR's and only made just under 250kW on very high boost. Maybe these XTRS may be better?

 

If you dont mind elaborating more on peoples past experiences with E&H? Please PM me if needed re topic.


Righty I see. So there's no set concrete power that the engine can really take (Aside from running like 300kW stock intern). Are you saying a car on 20psi 220kW may even blow up?

 

1 hour ago, Tony said:

 

Just on that point, there is no plug-in ECU for a GRB that costs $1400-1600. Link do not make one for this model Subaru. If you were considering a plug-in ECU, budget at least $3250 +GST (thats for an Emtron. I dont know what the Motec plug-in is worth, but it will be at least the same money, if not more).

 

Ahh, right I see. I didn't know that. Looks like I won't be getting an ECU after all. I certainly had troubles justifying $1400 let alone $3250 + GST... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

See thats one of the problems I personally have with particular tuners. No one can predict power results from car to car as every car performs differently including stock examples. It just screams "Ill play with the dyno to get you xyzwkw."

 

Yes even stock cars blow up. Dont get too hung up on the numbers the tuner will stop where its safe. 

 

The gt3071 has always been a good fit for the ej20 but unfortunately the bolt on housings leave a bit to be desired as opposed to t3 housings. The larger turbine gt30 60/55mm is the one you want not the 56.5/53mm ish one. Make spool similar but the larger turbine makes more power.

 

Not sure if flex fuel is an option on the stock ecu but dtech will know. Could be a good way to add a bit more safety and power.

 

The dtech guys are straight up and know their S*** you wont go wrong there. On the other hand pbms have had glowing reports from members who have used them since the new crew took over.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, evowrx said:

See thats one of the problems I personally have with particular tuners. No one can predict power results from car to car as every car performs differently including stock examples. It just screams "Ill play with the dyno to get you xyzwkw."

 

Yes even stock cars blow up. Dont get too hung up on the numbers the tuner will stop where its safe. 

 

The gt3071 has always been a good fit for the ej20 but unfortunately the bolt on housings leave a bit to be desired as opposed to t3 housings. The larger turbine gt30 60/55mm is the one you want not the 56.5/53mm ish one. Make spool similar but the larger turbine makes more power.

 

Not sure if flex fuel is an option on the stock ecu but dtech will know. Could be a good way to add a bit more safety and power.

 

The dtech guys are straight up and know their S*** you wont go wrong there. On the other hand pbms have had glowing reports from members who have used them since the new crew took over.

 

Righty, will ring more esp recommended tuners again. 

 

Yeah I try not to but for me as well I need to see that spending just over 4K needs to at least prove its worth by a decent amount of power putting down. I'm just afraid that I end up spending 4K and get only 20kw extra than tuning it as is atm. I know it's a Subaru and won't make the same power compared to evos.

 

Right I see I'll look into the 2.5xtr

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I recently bought a Blouch 1.5xt that'll be going into my GRB with a forged bottom end, Kelford cams and all the bolt on's. I'll be able to let you know how things go in a few more weeks when it's tuned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/18/2017 at 11:16 AM, raybe said:

I recently bought a Blouch 1.5xt that'll be going into my GRB with a forged bottom end, Kelford cams and all the bolt on's. I'll be able to let you know how things go in a few more weeks when it's tuned.

 

Oh, Cool. Please do; very interested to see the results. Are you taking it to PBMS by anychance? I emailed Julius recently and he mentioned there was another fellow with a Dom 1.5 that's going in a 2.0 GRB as I wanted some input from him as well. Have you got a FMIC installed as well? 

Did you happen to buy your turbo from RallySportDirect? 

I was looking into the 2.5XTR Twinscroll as well but seems like hardly anyone sells em? So I'd probably just opt for the 1.5XTR Twin. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm in the South Island so it's getting done at rapid performance, I have a thread with all the build on here if you wanted to have a look. 

 

I ended up getting mine from subimods.com they were great to deal with and fractionally cheaper than RallySport at the time. I'm also getting a FMIC done at the same time.

 

To be honest with out actually driving the car with the Dom 1.5 i'm already regretting not splashing out and getting a rotated turbo setup and a Garret GTX3283. That will have to be the next stage

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, raybe said:

I'm in the South Island so it's getting done at rapid performance, I have a thread with all the build on here if you wanted to have a look. 

 

I ended up getting mine from subimods.com they were great to deal with and fractionally cheaper than RallySport at the time. I'm also getting a FMIC done at the same time.

 

To be honest with out actually driving the car with the Dom 1.5 i'm already regretting not splashing out and getting a rotated turbo setup and a Garret GTX3283. That will have to be the next stage

 

Ahh, Yep, will have a look at it now. 

 

One way to get rid of that regretful feeling is to sell it to me ^_^ and splash out on a rotated turbo setup :D. Good thing I won't be regretting after getting a slightly bigger turbo as I'm on stock internals unlike you and not after big numbers. 

 

1 hour ago, evowrx said:

 

Yeah, I've seen that and priced it up couple days ago unfortunately they don't ship to NZ. Cost price of getting a 3.0XTR + Shipping and all is getting up there maxing out what I intended to spend. 

Honestly as well personally I don't need that big of a turbo, I don't think I would fully use the full potential of that turbo without going FMIC + Built engine. Results of 1.5XTR is quite sufficient for me and still within budget. 

 

I'm just thinking wouldn't that turbo be a bit more laggy as well? I guess it would be fine on the track as you'd be mostly in the high revs. Unfortunately I have no plans of taking mine to tracks so kinda need the street drive-ability, quick spooling like the 1.5XTR (I've heard the spool is moved more to the right of the rev range but not much). 

 

25 minutes ago, evowrx said:

 

2.5 tho.

 

Interesting how matts experience with service and quality wasnt up to par.

 

+1 Would like to know as well. Or if that prior customer can PM me?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin
51 minutes ago, evowrx said:

 

2.5 tho.

 

Interesting how matts experience with service and quality wasnt up to par.

 

That was what I was hoping he could chime in on. Obviously the 2.5 would give a very different experience to a 2.0

Link to comment
Share on other sites

long story short listen to everything evowrx says!

 

defs don't skimp on injectors, id1050 currently going for about $800 for the set, will support your power easy and also future proofed should you go for e85. it's the industry standard and the tuner will find it a lot easier as they can simply look up the tables and put those figures in from injector dynamics. having said that, if Dtech are offering you an alternative, that probably means whatever they are offering, they have figured out how to tune that for optimal results too , just saying don't go grab a random one without consulting your tuner first or you're up for issues. yes at a high level the spray pattern and dynamic performance (how it handles not only at high load but low load) is what's important in a good injector, and the supporting settings for the ECU to make it happen. don't even bother with decapping yours. theres my injector rant lol.

 

do not forget a front mount intercooler, i wish i knew about this before going in for my first tune. top mount holds you back.

 

yes you will want more power, i thought i didnt, and i did.. i still do. you won't realise it until after you get your post tune dyno results back for the first time. everything you do , plan it for where you want things to be a couple years down the track not just for now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Batbaruman said:

long story short listen to everything evowrx says!

 

defs don't skimp on injectors, id1050 currently going for about $800 for the set, will support your power easy and also future proofed should you go for e85. it's the industry standard and the tuner will find it a lot easier as they can simply look up the tables and put those figures in from injector dynamics. having said that, if Dtech are offering you an alternative, that probably means whatever they are offering, they have figured out how to tune that for optimal results too , just saying don't go grab a random one without consulting your tuner first or you're up for issues. yes at a high level the spray pattern and dynamic performance (how it handles not only at high load but low load) is what's important in a good injector, and the supporting settings for the ECU to make it happen. don't even bother with decapping yours. theres my injector rant lol.

 

do not forget a front mount intercooler, i wish i knew about this before going in for my first tune. top mount holds you back.

 

yes you will want more power, i thought i didnt, and i did.. i still do. you won't realise it until after you get your post tune dyno results back for the first time. everything you do , plan it for where you want things to be a couple years down the track not just for now.

 

Yep, noting what everyone is saying and making a decision off that as well as my own opinion/decision.

 

Yep, Dtech are selling Bosch injectors when I asked them. I'd be more than happy to use Bosch as an alternative as ID's are a bit up there when Bosch will perform at the same performance. As Tony from Dtech mentioned to me that ID's are like a model based of the Bosch Injectors. Yep, I'm definitely not intending to buy the injectors myself but to buy through the tuner instead as they would have dealt with it and installation etc... From each individual tuners I've asked it ranged from $125-130 + GST which is good for me. From your build thread it seems like you have gone to PBMS for your tune? I have not asked Julius yet but what Injectors do they usually go for apart from the ID's? Cheers for the feedback on injectors :) I've Pm'd you as well regarding tuning. 

 

Is it really that necessary (Bear in mind I'm not going for big power 250-260kW is enough)? Basically almost all the tuners I've talked to recommended it as well but they mentioned it's just so that the car can make more power and add more 'safety' to it. I was just going to say to them to do a safe conservative tune without pushing it too much and two of the tuners I talked to said it's definitely achievable using TMIC. 

 

I've got a Process west Intake so kinda means I have to get Process West FMIC which would set me back 2K+ just because the way the CAI intake is setup; other brands just won't do. Worst case scenario I get it all tuned with TMIC and if the bug bites (Looks nice and all but expensive) I'd go FMIC and just retune which is like $125 or something an hour for Dtech. I doubt they would have to completely do a dyno tune from scratch and only work with what they already have done (I don't think it would take long either). 

 

Yeah, I know that's always the case :D:D honestly though I don't really want to push more than 260kW on stock internals. No Plans of going forged either. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, BeastGRB said:

 

Thanks, will keep in mind. Going to research more of outcomes in America.

 

Just remember american power figures seem to be at odds with nz figures. Has caused a bit of heartbreak over the years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, evowrx said:

 

Just remember american power figures seem to be at odds with nz figures. Has caused a bit of heartbreak over the years.

 

Yep, Tony has advised me the same as well :) Pretty much stuck in my head I'm less likely to get butthurt once I get my own car for its first dyno run. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Knock sensors - on Subaru's whats the lifespan of these.  When I had my Maxima 3L 5-speed, it was very common for peoples cars to have dead KS and not have it throw the CEL.  When you checked the KS it was cracked, after replacing it went a lot better obviously as it could advance timing.

 

There was a thread on here about people dynoing and not being up to push it past 150kw's or what ever with out it detonating... have they ruled out the knock sensor I wonder.  I booked to go to Dtech in July and I'm wondering if I do that as preventive maintenance (next question $'s from where, Partsouq I couldn't find the KS)

Edited by killervq30de
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin

Ok, I love big turbos, but a 55lb/min turbo when you're only hunting 260-270wkw is a waste and will just mean longer spool for the same top end.

It should flow enough for 300wkw down the road if you decide that's what you want to do but I get the impression that on a GRB that usually requires opening the block and adding forged goodies, at which point you may as well go the whole hog with a rotated GTX30 or even GT35 and make 320-350wkw instead.

That said, I don't like tiny turbines (says the guy going to a smaller turbine) so I would be looking at the 2.5XTR.

 

Just my 2c.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, boon said:

Ok, I love big turbos, but a 55lb/min turbo when you're only hunting 260-270wkw is a waste and will just mean longer spool for the same top end.

It should flow enough for 300wkw down the road if you decide that's what you want to do but I get the impression that on a GRB that usually requires opening the block and adding forged goodies, at which point you may as well go the whole hog with a rotated GTX30 or even GT35 and make 320-350wkw instead.

That said, I don't like tiny turbines (says the guy going to a smaller turbine) so I would be looking at the 2.5XTR.

 

Just my 2c.

 

 

Yeah, I read that spool is moved to the right of the rev range 300-400rpm. Which I don't think is that bad. When going on it I don't think I'd notice the extra 300rpm it would take to spool. I'm not certain but I think my car is hitting 20psi at 4000rpm which then tapers down. I think it starts building around 3500. By top end do you mean like same dyno graph/minimal differences between stock turbo vs Blouch as to kW and Torque and how it tapers down? 

 

Yep, that's what my assumption is as well hence why I'm limiting it to 260kW because I'd have to build the motor and if I decide to do that ofcourse bigger turbo to maximize power output. No plans of doing so at all hence why I'm quite happy with a 1.5XTR TS with a good amount of torque, kW, good spool time. 

 

Yeah, thing is for me there's not much 2.5XTR Twinscroll around that I could see anywho and the next readily available one is the 3.0XTR which I'm still meh about. 

 

Thoughts? anyone? 

I'm actually going to have a look at a Blouch 1.5XTR TS possibly this weekend used. Would be around 20tho k's ish on it, 2 Years old. 50/50 if I should go new or second hand. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin

My comments there (re. 55lb/min turbo) refer to the 3.0XTR; worse spool and the same top end as a 1.5 or 2.5, seeing as the tune will end up limiting the car to maybe 270wkw for safety reasons. It will still be fast as feck but you will get more area under the curve with a smaller turbo (1.5 or 2.5) because the curve will rise earlier to the same end-point.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recent Status Updates

    • MrSg9Sti04

      Afternoon team,
      im new to the group first time posting. Im hoping some body can help me get my launch control all dialled in on my link g4x. Ive had the computer and car all tuned from chris at prestige awesome knowlegable guy super happy with the results but now im wanting to get my launch/anti lag all dialled in. Ive been reading multiple different forums etc all with different conflicking information which has made me nervious with what do i listen to this or that if you get what i mean. Now ive started to make myself familiar with my PClink software etc the past few weeks and im eager to learn how to do minor setups or tweaks etc so im not relieing on my tuner so much and obviously saving myself abit hurt in the back pocket. 
      Now back to the question at hand.... Im wondering if theres and one who could please share there knowledge and wisdom with setting all my values, timing, fuel etc when i have launch control armed and engaged, or even a launch tune file they can possibly send me to load onto my tune. Ive figured out the setup of my digital inputs turning launch control on etc and its obvisously on its pre set factory settings. It engages but doesnt sound the greatest or as angry as it should i feel. Hence reaching out to you good buggers. 
       
      Cheers in advance for any info and help yous maybe able to give me.
       
      Cheers Shaun
      · 0 replies
    • Joker  »  gotasuby

      updated your DP's too : hope that's ok!
      · 0 replies
    • Joker  »  SAS

      Updated your DP's to reflect your business page  
      · 0 replies
    • Joker  »  Nachoooo

      Updated your Avatar : couldnt help myself  cheers!
      · 0 replies
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Forum Statistics

    40.9k
    Total Topics
    573.5k
    Total Posts
×
×
  • Create New...