Inked

Oil levels for track racing

100 posts in this topic

Forgive my ignorance, but i don't understand how a car built and designed for aggressive road and rally can have major oil starvation issues? Surely when these were being built and tested on back roads / tracks etc they were pushed reasonably hard? Yeah for sure if you put a race driver with years of experience behind the wheel they will probably get the car at its limit and possibly bring up those issues with massive G forces. But for your amateur racer, is this something we really need to worry about? I'll be hitting the track too soon and my car is pretty well maintained. Just not sure what the definition of the limit is and if my driving will be totally fine on the track or not. I'd like to think i push my car pretty hard - if you're at point of almost sliding around the corner (RE003's) does that warrant adding in precautionary methods like overfilling etc? or am I ok?

 

Sorry if this doesn't make a lot of sense! 

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2 hours ago, pedro said:

This thread has lost its way..;)

I Know right :P 

2 hours ago, Joker said:

most active & social thread I've seen on CS for a while tho, I enjoyed it

 

good chat

My Bad :P Maybe name change it to Official Track Day Talk :P 

1 hour ago, Niran said:

Forgive my ignorance, but i don't understand how a car built and designed for aggressive road and rally can have major oil starvation issues? Surely when these were being built and tested on back roads / tracks etc they were pushed reasonably hard? Yeah for sure if you put a race driver with years of experience behind the wheel they will probably get the car at its limit and possibly bring up those issues with massive G forces. But for your amateur racer, is this something we really need to worry about? I'll be hitting the track too soon and my car is pretty well maintained. Just not sure what the definition of the limit is and if my driving will be totally fine on the track or not. I'd like to think i push my car pretty hard - if you're at point of almost sliding around the corner (RE003's) does that warrant adding in precautionary methods like overfilling etc? or am I ok?

 

Sorry if this doesn't make a lot of sense! 


Yeah I was also wondering exactly that, I mean especially with it been more of a scooby issue, I've heavily tracked my ST's over the years and when I raced for the Citroen team in endurance racing we didn't have any worries about this kind of thing 

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If you Google "Subaru gc8 oil starvation" you will get 5850 replies..

Read a few and report back..:o

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Before i delve into google :P  is it more a GC8 thing than the newer subys? 
 

@pedro

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I'd go with GC8 being Version 1-6 which would easily be more than Half the Impreza's on the road or in the world

 

more Legacy's have been produced but they 'generally' not driven as hard

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2 hours ago, pedro said:

If you Google "Subaru gc8 oil starvation" you will get 5850 replies..

Read a few and report back..:o

I only got 5460 replies

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It's not a circuit car or rally car in standard form... the sump is fine for road racing.

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agree above.

 

i wouldn't overthink it.

 

i've seen roadcars and racecars go nugganugga

 

take some basic precautions as previously mentioned and go enjoy yourself.

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why has nobody mentioned fuel starvation too?

 

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On 2/23/2018 at 1:32 PM, newsuba said:

i wouldn't overthink it.

 

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In my car I have a pressure sensor in place of the factory pressure switch connected to the link. It is running limits on minimum oil pressures to protect the engine (Thanks @gotasuby!).

 

At the track day my oil pressure limits kicked in doing what they were supposed too, but I was wondering how many others log oil pressure at track days and found something out of line?

 

Mine was hitting 38 psi @ 3400rpm and 48 psi @ 6000rpm, I think factory minimums are 43psi @ 5000rpm. Water temp didn't go above 95C and I was running Castrol Edge 5w-40SN.

 

(side note, I'm going to try some ACEA A3/B4 spec oil next oil change, and maybe some ACEA E7-9 diesel oil after that. A3/B4 apparently has a better shear spec, and the diesel stuff forgos the fuel efficiency additives for better shear/durability while meeting the A3/B4 specs, this is probably splitting hairs but still interesting)

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18 hours ago, Jono24 said:

In my car I have a pressure sensor in place of the factory pressure switch connected to the link. It is running limits on minimum oil pressures to protect the engine (Thanks @gotasuby!).

 

At the track day my oil pressure limits kicked in doing what they were supposed too, but I was wondering how many others log oil pressure at track days and found something out of line?

 

Mine was hitting 38 psi @ 3400rpm and 48 psi @ 6000rpm, I think factory minimums are 43psi @ 5000rpm. Water temp didn't go above 95C and I was running Castrol Edge 5w-40SN.

 

(side note, I'm going to try some ACEA A3/B4 spec oil next oil change, and maybe some ACEA E7-9 diesel oil after that. A3/B4 apparently has a better shear spec, and the diesel stuff forgos the fuel efficiency additives for better shear/durability while meeting the A3/B4 specs, this is probably splitting hairs but still interesting)

 

Mine. my GP limits were the only reason my engine did not go nuclear (totally worth the investment). I got down as low as 25psi on a corner - was super frustrating at the time travelling two hours to track for a 1 lap limp. My issue was mainly that when the engine was rebuilt the mechanic didn't think it still needed the windage tray. But I log and review after each run... IMO 5 minutes of checking totally worth it. see my build thread I think there is a post with my revised oil pressure maps.

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On 24/02/2018 at 7:57 PM, BriteLites said:

why has nobody mentioned fuel starvation too?

 

 

Probably because you can feel it and fix it long before it's fatal by going to the petrol station. 

 

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On 2/23/2018 at 10:36 AM, pedro said:

If you Google "Subaru gc8 oil starvation" you will get 5850 replies..

Read a few and report back..:o

 

On 2/23/2018 at 10:59 AM, Niran said:

Before i delve into google :P  is it more a GC8 thing than the newer subys? 
 

@pedro

Looks like its also the Newer ones, In the last race of the season one of the guys in what looks like a 2011 STi had the exact problem:
 

19 hours ago, Jono24 said:

Mine was hitting 38 psi @ 3400rpm and 48 psi @ 6000rpm, I think factory minimums are 43psi @ 5000rpm. Water temp didn't go above 95C and I was running Castrol Edge 5w-40SN.

 

(side note, I'm going to try some ACEA A3/B4 spec oil next oil change, and maybe some ACEA E7-9 diesel oil after that. A3/B4 apparently has a better shear spec, and the diesel stuff forgos the fuel efficiency additives for better shear/durability while meeting the A3/B4 specs, this is probably splitting hairs but still interesting)

1

 

Funny enough for me the main bit I looked at was how the oil deals with heat, especially on a turbo car, ended up dropping the factory used Castrol and went with the Penrite APR5 as checked out a few independent tests and they found it didn't burn and even in hard track use kept the temp well. Guess We'll see at Super lap next month, Will keep an eye on the Temp gauge. 

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On 23/02/2018 at 10:33 AM, Not_Sean said:

Yeah I was also wondering exactly that, I mean especially with it been more of a scooby issue, I've heavily tracked my ST's over the years and when I raced for the Citroen team in endurance racing we didn't have any worries about this kind of thing 

 

I doubt your STs or Citroens have a flat motor. It is a flat engine problem, the oil pools in the rocker covers due to the effective CoG of the oil system being above the rim of the sump, preventing oil draining back.

You still get some oil issues on a transverse mounted inline motor but you need way, way more G-force before the oil will climb the walls of the sump/block.

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18 minutes ago, boon said:

 

I doubt your STs or Citroens have a flat motor. It is a flat engine problem

Funnily enough I've never heard of this problem with GT86's or BRZ' (subaru flat-4)

I've brought mine to the Nurburgring and know plenty of ppl that did as well with a stock motor and nobody ever had a problem.

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26 minutes ago, delta said:

Funnily enough I've never heard of this problem with GT86's or BRZ' (subaru flat-4)

I've brought mine to the Nurburgring and know plenty of ppl that did as well with a stock motor and nobody ever had a problem.

EJ engine vs FA engine?

Maybe with the new engine design they have minimised or eliminated the issue?

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49 minutes ago, SpeedySub said:

EJ engine vs FA engine?

Maybe with the new engine design they have minimised or eliminated the issue?

 

It will be a better sump/baffle design. Or the fact that the BRZ has no power and can't get up enough speed for high Gs :P

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1 hour ago, Loren said:

 

It will be a better sump/baffle design. Or the fact that the BRZ has no power and can't get up enough speed for high Gs :P

Hahaha ! You jealous prick because you have a high centre of gravity and can't corner fast without risking to rollover :P

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24 minutes ago, delta said:

Hahaha ! You jealous prick because you have a high centre of gravity and can't corner fast without risking to rollover :P

 

I am a bit jealous I must admit... if I had a BRZ I would have the perfect excuse for posting bad times at hillclimbs :P

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1 hour ago, Loren said:

 

I am a bit jealous I must admit... if I had a BRZ I would have the perfect excuse for posting bad times at hillclimbs :P

Power is for bad drivers :P

 

 

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2 hours ago, delta said:

Power is for bad drivers :P

Yip helps you get away from the cops xD

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Wouldn't it be worse if the breathers where fed to the intake and the vacuum would keep the oil in the heads?

if the crankcase isn't under the same or more vacuum the the oil wouldn't be returning as fast.

 

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13 hours ago, Gripless said:

Wouldn't it be worse if the breathers where fed to the intake and the vacuum would keep the oil in the heads?

if the crankcase isn't under the same or more vacuum the the oil wouldn't be returning as fast.

 

 

The crank case and rocker cover breathers are all tee'd together and fed into the intake pre-turbo. So they should in theory all be under a slight and equal vacuum.

 

This is also why occasionally a Subaru will go full batmobile-smoke-screen on a long sweeping corner, when a big gulp of oil gets slurped up a breather and subsequently goes through the motor.

 

 

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22 hours ago, boon said:

This is also why occasionally a Subaru will go full batmobile-smoke-screen on a long sweeping corner, when a big gulp of oil gets slurped up a breather and subsequently goes through the motor.

 

 

1

well, that's comforting O.o 

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