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Sputtering and hesitation


aaronpnz

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Hi all, need a bit of help with this one please.

 

I have a 2003 NZ new GTB, EJ20X, all stock. I had a new engine installed at 28200km as apparently a con threw and punched a hole in the side of the block, oil and water everywhere. Got all the required stuff (cambelt, pump, plugs) done at the same time. 

 

I'm having an issue that started before the engine was replaced, where I get a sort of sputtering and "wet farting" on take off. Total loss of power and requires throttle off then back to stop it. It's gotten to the point now where it's almost dangerous to drive and I just can't rely on it to accelerate as it should.

 

I've put more $ into this than I had planned and while it needs to be resolved, I don't really want to keep "investing". I like the car, love it almost but enough is enough perhaps. 

 

Any one have any ideas, experience with this and simple non expensive fixes? I've read maybe MAF sensor, fuel pump, so many things... car does not show any error codes. I'm running BTSSM on a tablet so can log stuff but don't know enough to read the logs and decipher any issues.

 

Any help out there?


Cheers in advance

 

  

 

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Since you’ve got the ability to log you might as well start there. 

 

Do some logs to try catch it doing it. Along with a full throttle pull if you feel comfortable doing that with how it currently is running. 

Include:

Rpm

Afr

Boost

Fkc

Flkc

Fuel correct

Fuel learn

Iam

Injector dc

Intake temp

Maf g/s

Throttle %

 

Can include all 4 vvt angle as well but need to use software on a laptop to get the angles and solenoid duty cycle to compare and be sure they’re doing what the ecu wants them to do. 

 

Then upload to google drive or whatever you use and one of us will have a look. 

 

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Cheers guys, coming up Ngauranga just now, was so low in power... 3rd in tiptronic just bogged down. It starts just fine and revs out with no load on it seemingly ok. I pulled the MAF sensor out for a look last night, I'll get some sensor cleaner and spray that, worth a shot I guess. I have some logs I pulled last night, and plugged laptop in using FreeSSM, only fault codes showing were P0725 to do with Engine Speed Circuit Malfunction, and 43 ABS/VDC failure. I reset the ECU while there and the memory on the gearbox which now changes smoother. 

 

How do I upload the logs to the Google drive?

 

Cheers

Nevermind, brain fart... they're already in my OneDrive...

 

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AjfixQ0aH9oCgYhG-ckHP_Yk8PcIBA

 

Cheers

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So you haven't got an aftermarket intake or anything like that have you? If not, you have a decent sized intake leak. The ECU can only correct fuelling up to 15%, after that you'll run rich or lean. Your's is maxing out at -15% so it can't remove any more fuel to account for the reduced air making it in to the engine. So that could explain to some extent some of the issue as it's running rich by an unknown percentage. Doesn't really explain why lifting off then accelerating again solves it. 

Plus the ECU pulling between 5.6 and 8.4 degrees of timing between 3500 and 5100rpm at only 1.15g/rev load is mildly alarming. That's a slow acceleration load range. A knock event that bad could easily be the reason your last engine bit the bullet.

 

That fault code is another probable issue as a quick google search comes up with a few examples of other Legacy's with it ranging from crank sensor issues to TCM issues. 

 

You need more parameters for the logs, time, boost, rpm and speed aren't enough to deduce anything

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 Hey thanks for the detailed info. No, my car is totally stock, haven't altered anything. Turbo went last year (poor maintenance I suspect) and then engine. I don't drive it hard, just a daily driver but do "enjoy" a bit of boost at times. Since I reset the ECU, BTSSM appears to not be working, but wierd, so unable to log right now.

 

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AjfixQ0aH9oCgYw02agJDDO1dCl6Tg

 

 

I might run FreeSSM on my Surface on the way in to work and home tomorrow, see what that picks up. 

 

With the intake leak, could that be as simple as a split or crack flexing under torque and letting air in?

Edited by aaronpnz
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Considering it’s happening throughout  it’ll be a split hose or a loose connection between one of the pipes on the intake side. 

 

What are you using to connect to the ECU? Just one of those blue vag-com cables? 

 

Some mechanics will do a smoke test which should find a leak of this size super easily, normally pretty cheap too. 

 

Maxing out the negative’s at the lowest load range means it’ll typically be post turbo, since leaks pre turbo will typically be sucking air in, not letting it out. Intercooler to throttle body pipe would be my first guess. The gasket on the throttle side quite commonly split. 

 

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Hi, yep... blue vag-com cable. I got a wifi connector as well but the wifi keeps dropping, although it's stable on my Odyssey... 

 

I'll get those pipes checked and will likely replace the MAF sensor as well. Saw my mechanic today, he thinks MAF sensor and wanted the logs as well. I'll hook up the Surface tomorrow and log more. 

 

Love the Legacy but good money after bad is starting to ring louder. 

 

Need to sell the Odyssey (2006 4wd L model, nice trim, full Navi (but Japanese) 191000 km chain drive 2.4ivtec) if anyone's interested (or swap for Legacy GT- B later than mine) and look for 2007/8 GT-B. 

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Hmm, set up FreeSSM to monitor all possible data this morning, hut start but don't seem to be abl to find any log files, has anyone used FreeSSM to log data? 

 

Or any other Windows software that can log data?

 

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1 hour ago, aaronpnz said:

Mechanic says turbo has gone... that might explain it... somewhat...

 

I don't think so .. its knocking under load, quite heavily.   Anything over -2.81 is bad 


If it was a vac leak it would add fuel. Just this week my BTSSM was showing at idle it was adding 15%, luckly for me it was just a little vac hose had popped off my the intake manifold.  It does add fuel under load but I think that's normal but obviously not that high... should be <=5%

 

You should add fuel learn % to your logs as well as FKC FLKC.  You should be able to log the major counters with BTSSM.  Resetting your ECU will just mask the error.  IAM needs to be at 1.0 before the car is happy you are back at normal operating levels, reset drops that to 0.5, yours dropped lower than .5

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Ok thanks guys... wondering what to do... replace turbo or write the car off and chalk it down to experience and forget turbos... likely about $700 for 2nd hand turbo plus a few hours. 

 

Rest of car is great, new engine has done about 90thou km, did cambelt and pump 10thou ago... CV boots done, suspension bushes done, bearing done, 4 new tyres... fix and keep, or dump...

 

Dunno

Edited by aaronpnz
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1 hour ago, aaronpnz said:

Ok thanks guys... wondering what to do... replace turbo or write the car off and chalk it down to experience and forget turbos... likely about $700 for 2nd hand turbo plus a few hours. 

 

Rest of car is great, new engine has done about 90thou km, did cambelt and pump 10thou ago... CV boots done, suspension bushes done, bearing done, 4 new tyres... fix and keep, or dump...

 

Dunno

 

Sounds like the car would be great for a long time once the turbo is replaced, especially after that much work done to it. Of course it's a good learning curve but i'm gonna vote to fix and keep. 

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Well... no.

 

I don't have the car back yet, nearly 2 weeks now. I think they have determined it's not the turbo that needs replacing, and ran it through boost and smoke tests, and have found a fuel pump problem. They've replaced the fuel pump but are still having issues, I'm not sure what exactly what the issues are. It's at Macbilt I think.

 

I'll keep you posted...

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1 hour ago, aaronpnz said:

Well... no.

 

I don't have the car back yet, nearly 2 weeks now. I think they have determined it's not the turbo that needs replacing, and ran it through boost and smoke tests, and have found a fuel pump problem. They've replaced the fuel pump but are still having issues, I'm not sure what exactly what the issues are. It's at Macbilt I think.

 

I'll keep you posted...

 

It is a worry they blamed the turbo to begin with.. I know your pain though not knowing what the outcome/bill is, I had my engine pop last year.  As it seems to be fuel related could it be bad coil packs?

Edited by killervq30de
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Update:

Got car back yesterday, new fuel pump, fuel filter cleaned, entire full system cleaned out. Filter was just filthy and appears to have clogged, and the full system was also very dirty. Haven't taken it for a rip yet, but seems to have a new lease on life even in commute home, Ngauranga was fun again! 

Partly age (2003), NZ fuels, and me driving with fuel light on a lot...

Lesson learned!

Heated seats back... mmmm

 

 

Edited by aaronpnz
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On 04/07/2018 at 7:24 AM, aaronpnz said:

Update:

Got car back yesterday, new fuel pump, fuel filter cleaned, entire full system cleaned out. Filter was just filthy and appears to have clogged, and the full system was also very dirty. Haven't taken it for a rip yet, but seems to have a new lease on life even in commute home, Ngauranga was fun again! 

Partly age (2003), NZ fuels, and me driving with fuel light on a lot...

Lesson learned!

Heated seats back... mmmm

 

 

Cool! I was thinking my problem was injector related and this supports my theory.

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