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Catch can or AOS


J CHILN

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Hey all! 

 

At Flat nats I was getting a bit of blow by after doing about 4-5 laps and was pushing the car a lot harder than the time before. I have been told a few things like it can be quite normal for this to happen & having forged pistons normally makes this more likely to happen? I am not a expert in the motor area so please stare me in the rite direction if I am incorrect. 

 

I am wanting to help counter this either way and a way I have seen online is by getting a catch can set up or a AOS setup. can anyone recommend anything? 

 

for the AOS setup I know a couple of members on here has the Grimmspeed kit & the Radium kit. there is a massive price difference as well was wondering what people think is best? both owners of the cars love theirs. I am not worried about the price just want to make sure I buy a setup that is good :D 

 

TIA 

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looked a bit into this too (got a can sitting in the shed) & a search in here bought up @Tony's system that was for sale once upon a time

 

fed from both heads & crank case, into an Air Oil Seperator (catch can) then back into the intake somehow was the best method (not atmosphere)

 

I'll pop in som links here shortly from the Mega FAQ

 

ClubSub Technical MEGA FAQ *Beta*

 

http://clubsub.org.nz/forum/showthread.php?36782-catch-can-setup-dual-cans-no-filters

 

http://clubsub.org.nz/forum/showthread.php?45649-S2-industries-Air-Oil-Separator

 

are the only two links listed in there

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and a few discussion threads on here, could be worth reading ; 

 

 

 

Soz if you've already searched & read these :P

 

edit : mint Posted these same time as your reply!

and link to the setup Tony was running / sold in his racecar

 

 

tid bit of infor from Viv : 

 

On 17/12/2015 at 11:15 AM, Munkvy said:

Nah just Tony was really helpful with telling me how he did it, so I used his advice to build mine. It's reasonably similar, but I only have single port heads, so only run one line from either side.

And yes Andy_Mac, you only need a catch can on a car that's being raced. No reason for it on a road car that I can tell. And if you do need it on the road, you probably have either an engine problem or need to slow the f*ck down!

 

but yeah plenty older cars can benifit from a catch can I reckon (you always get those super worried people who remove their intake for the first time

 

"IS THIS NORMAL"

 

oil residue etc

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The whole octane reduction yarn you normally hear is a joke. You’d need to be sucking out massive amounts of oil vapour to make any minute difference. 

They aren't necessary on the street, but that doesn't mean people don't still fill catch cans with street driving. 

 

The thing I like about the Radium AOS, and most others like it, is that if you do somehow suck a slug of oil with your semi slicks pushing things to the max it’ll just go through the can and back out the bottom into the crankcase. 

No need to check catchcans every few laps or anything like that.

 

I still reckon you aren't getting much for your money with the grimmspeed one. Almost no internal surface area compared to any can setup. I’d hazard a guess that half of the run back is just what has already condensed on the inside of the hoses.

 

There’s a massive S*** show of an argument about plumbing and what's best on iwsti I believe, can't seem to find it right now. Read through most of it a few years back. Doesn't help much but does open you up to the differing idea’s out there.

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22 minutes ago, Andy_Mac said:

The whole octane reduction yarn you normally hear is a joke. You’d need to be sucking out massive amounts of oil vapour to make any minute difference. 

They aren't necessary on the street, but that doesn't mean people don't still fill catch cans with street driving. 

 

The thing I like about the Radium AOS, and most others like it, is that if you do somehow suck a slug of oil with your semi slicks pushing things to the max it’ll just go through the can and back out the bottom into the crankcase. 

No need to check catchcans every few laps or anything like that.

 

I still reckon you aren't getting much for your money with the grimmspeed one. Almost no internal surface area compared to any can setup. I’d hazard a guess that half of the run back is just what has already condensed on the inside of the hoses.

 

There’s a massive S*** show of an argument about plumbing and what's best on iwsti I believe, can't seem to find it right now. Read through most of it a few years back. Doesn't help much but does open you up to the differing idea’s out there.

The Radium is definitely the one I am leaning towards and has great reviews online as well! cheers mate. 

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1 hour ago, Inked said:

a few of those posts make zero sense to me

 

Glad its not just me then :P 

 

fat old F for following as I've entered the 4&R's Jamboree AWD Superlap thing on the Saturday LOL 

 

with the ClubSUB Sticker car.....

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53 minutes ago, GC8E2DD said:

 

What are the metrics exactly?

 

I would also like to know... for example my car will magically disappear a litre of oil on a race weekend, does that qualify? :P

 

 

Edited by Loren
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20 minutes ago, Inked said:

@Loren what setup do you have since you race yours 

 

A very simple setup... 2 litre can with three inlets and one outlet. 2 x 1/2 inch inlets for the header breathers... and a 3/4 inch inlet for the crank breather.

The outlet is 1.5 inches which is piped out under the car. So no PCV and nothing going back into the intake. I don't bother piping the oil back into the

sump as it looks nasty once it's been in the can... plus I don't track it much so don't actually get large volumes of oil in there. I have no idea where the

1 litre of oil over a weekend goes :) I also trimmed up the head breather gaskets, so they flow better.

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1 hour ago, Loren said:

I would also like to know

 

I believe the original query here was how much oil vapour does it take to reduce the octane rating of the go-juice, if we knew the octane rating of oil there's a start, then vapoorise it then add it to the fuel air mix untill you reach 98>95>01 levels I bet its a metric S*** tonne of oil before even 1 or 1% octanes get reduced

 

just theory here, math will win

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1 hour ago, Loren said:

 

I would also like to know... for example my car will magically disappear a litre of oil on a race weekend, does that qualify? :P

 

 

 

Probably worth hitting up the guy sitting in the car next to you with a hose and greasy lips xD

 

 

I'm talking about how much you're sucking back through your intake on a setup that returns the dirty air pre turbo. 

You’re sucking 200-xyz g/s of air through a massive 3-4inch pipe with a tiny 1/2inch tacked to the side sucking through a finite space. 

 

Ballpark figures for a worst case scenario to make S*** simple:

400whp-ish = 400g/s of air over say 30 mins all up of fast driving? = 720kg of air

Even if that entire 1L made it into the intake already vapourised and stayed vapourised, which it wouldn't, that would be 1.38ml of oil per kg of air or

33ml/min against 1000ml/min of fuel so 3.3% of your total ’fuel’ volume is oil vapour in that horrendous scenario that just wouldn't happen.

Obviously you can skew any of the ’volumes’ easily to completely change the outcome. 

 

No idea what the octane of engine oil is so can't take this any further....

 

 

 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Loren said:

 

I would also like to know... for example my car will magically disappear a litre of oil on a race weekend, does that qualify? :P

 

 

What’s the oil capacity of your engine.Loosing 1 litre of oil out of a oem twin scroll sump could be fatal with hard driving.The car also has to be dead level to correctly check the oil.

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23 minutes ago, Loren said:

If you have an on the edge tune and no knock monitoring on the ecu... you really don't want any decrease in octane.

Plus who wants oil coating their turbo, IC and intake manifold even if it doesn't affect the octane?

 

Exactly, but this topic is hugely overplayed by those trying to sell their product.

For 95% of us the purpose is to keep everything clean. Even for yours you’ve said stuff all makes it into the can. So the volume that would be making it into the intake if it was plumbed back without a can would be stuff all too. Unless your can isn't filtering it very well and dumping it all to atmosphere. You’d have a filthy underside if that was the case though.

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I used to pour a couple of teaspoons of oil out of my intercooler after autocrosses. Autocross is probably worse than track driving though (which is what we are discussing here?); far more violent cornering, less warm up time, much higher revs for more of the time and so on.

Edited by GC8E2DD
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3 minutes ago, GC8E2DD said:

I used to pour a couple of teaspoons of oil out of my intercooler after autocrosses.

Most times I’ve removed tmic on various cars I fill the core up with petrol and have given them a good soak and clean.

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8 minutes ago, GC8E2DD said:

I used to pour a couple of teaspoons of oil out of my intercooler after autocrosses. Autocross is probably worse than track driving though; far more violent cornering, less warm up time, much higher revs for more of the time and so on.

 

Any ’serious’ motorsport like that is a different scenario to the yarn spread around to every man and his dog that the octane is considerably reduced when not running a catchcan

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This is all getting a bit over my head with octane levels etc ha ha! Think I might just go with the Radium kit which I have linked below and MLRacing are doing a disscount for me as well :) 

http://www.mlracing.co.nz/radium-engineering-air-oil-separator-kit-subaru-wrx-sti-2002-2007.html

 

@pedro Tony just said due to the increased cornering grip now that I am running semi slicks I will find that a lot of oil gets hung up in the outside head if driving at manfeild. He mentioned I could go for a catch can setup which I can empty but isn't ideal due to potentially loosing more and more oil. Said he did not have any experience with the Grimmspeed AOS and to talk to @Andy_Mac about the Radium which I have done :D 

 

The other options he said was to speak with yourself and look at how he did his old set up or just run a typical catch can setup with 3 inlests (crankcase and the 2 head breathers but as I have just replaced my sump said it could be annoying to take off and weld a -10an fitting onto it. 

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