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20TT turbo lagg


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Cheaper solution, before you go out spending big bucks.

Get a can of Upper Cylinder Cleaner from your local Subaru Dealership (Part No: SA459, Retail $22.50) and run it though, It can greatly minimize the effects of the VOD.

It wont get rid of it completely (only a single conversion will do that) but from experience a Can or Two of Foam helps ALOT especially if it's never been done before, or if the previous owner didn't maintain the motor properly.

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I have a squeaky drivers door, can the upper cylinder cleaner "greatly minimize" that too? ::)

 Hopai said:

Cheaper solution, before you go out spending big bucks.

Get a can of Upper Cylinder Cleaner from your local Subaru Dealership (Part No: SA459, Retail $22.50) and run it though, It can greatly minimize the effects of the VOD.

It wont get rid of it completely (only a single conversion will do that) but from experience a Can or Two of Foam helps ALOT especially if it's never been done before, or if the previous owner didn't maintain the motor properly.

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 Durty-Sanchez said:

I have a squeaky drivers door, can the upper cylinder cleaner "greatly minimize" that too? ::)

No, That's what dry lube is for. Unless you confuse it with a can of whipped cream, then it's just tasty; am i rite? ::):o

Don't knock something until you've tried it, there's a reason it's mandatory in a service to keep Subaru Factory Warranty's alive. I've suggested it to many people on here and they've all been very pleased with the results.

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Here's something for you to try. You need two pressure reducing valves (effectively check valves with adjustable preload and very small bleeds), a check valve, a couple of t-pieces and some vacuum hose. Only try this if you understand how the twin turbo system actually works at the moment, otherwise if you have any trouble with it you won't know which way is up in the mess of vacuum lines, solenoids, and actuators that is a sequential twin turbo system. You also need to understand what actually causes the Valley of Death.

The check valve goes in the line to your secondary exhaust control valve (ECV) on the side that opens the valve when pressure is applied, and a T-piece goes between that and the ECV.

Find a boost only source (intercooler is best bet, but any connection between the PRIMARY turbo and the throttle will do fine) and plumb one of your pressure reducing valves between it and your new T-piece.

Disconnect the primary wastegate, block the hose. The other pressure reducing valve is connected between a boost source (ala intercooler) and the primary wastegate.

The idea here is that the factory ECU has control over when to start spooling the secondary turbo. But by doing this, we are opening the ECV instead of the primary wastegate when the primary starts making too much boost, opening it before subaru (for some screwed up reasons) elected to. The second pressure reducing valve is present because with the primary wastegate disconnected completely, boost is uncontrolled once the secondary spools up.

Effectively the first valve becomes a primary boost control, and the second becomes secondary boost. Unfortunately I can't see a way for both to be the same and the system to work. Secondary will need to be 3-4psi higher than primary.

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 RSB said:

Only complaint i have is that i need to be in third to really exploit it, and thats bye bye car material if in the wrong place at the wrong time kind of deal... :-X

Im sorry, but what do you mean by that last bit? car material? Hitting the revlimiter?

I too have decided in the last couple of days that i want to rid myself of this VOD. Im planning on getting an intake soon, but being in Japan, it is also easy to pick up a cheap ZS seq. controller, but im kind of just sussing out what the cons are to having this installed!?!

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 Munkvy said:

He is referring to using third gear and that causing you to loose your license... as third equals about 140km/hr at 7500rpm. And 40km/hr over speed limit of 100km/hr in NZ is loss of license material :)

cheers mate, i forgot about Police :)

Is the ZS seq.con easy enough to work? Do i need a tuner to do it?

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 Hopai said:

Cheaper solution, before you go out spending big bucks.

Get a can of Upper Cylinder Cleaner from your local Subaru Dealership (Part No: SA459, Retail $22.50) and run it though, It can greatly minimize the effects of the VOD.

It wont get rid of it completely (only a single conversion will do that) but from experience a Can or Two of Foam helps ALOT especially if it's never been done before, or if the previous owner didn't maintain the motor properly.

My problem is finding somewhere I can put the can through! When I bought the can from Winger they told me not to do it in a built up area because of the huge amount of smoke it'll produce!

BTW, I've noticed that my VOD has moved (or it seems that way). It seems to happen around 5k instead of the 4.5k rpm that it used too. It feels pretty short too :)

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In the whole thread, no one has mentioned how much better a new exhaust system would be as well as installing a tunable ECU. Both of these would have a major effect on VOD. Ive been told its possible to buy the late model ECU from the Legacy BH/BE type D and use this, as its tunable with the right software.

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 BigWillieStyles said:

In the whole thread, no one has mentioned how much better a new exhaust system would be as well as installing a tunable ECU. Both of these would have a major effect on VOD. Ive been told its possible to buy the late model ECU from the Legacy BH/BE type D and use this, as its tunable with the right software.

can anyone confirm if the BH/BE type d ecu would fit?also anyone have any idea on where to get the exhaust done?dont say pitstop

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 BigWillieStyles said:

In the whole thread, no one has mentioned how much better a new exhaust system would be as well as installing a tunable ECU. Both of these would have a major effect on VOD. Ive been told its possible to buy the late model ECU from the Legacy BH/BE type D and use this, as its tunable with the right software.

Good Point. I believe a full 2.5" turbo back system with a siamese downpipe on the primary works wonders. Only issue is that pre EJ20R, such a mod has a tendancy to overspool. I've been told that EJ20Rs onwards arent at such risck of overspool, But i can't comment on the accuracy of that information!

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  • 4 weeks later...
 rsb_leggy']

[quote name='BigWillieStyles said:

In the whole thread, no one has mentioned how much better a new exhaust system would be as well as installing a tunable ECU. Both of these would have a major effect on VOD. Ive been told its possible to buy the late model ECU from the Legacy BH/BE type D and use this, as its tunable with the right software.

/quote]

can anyone confirm if the BH/BE type d ecu would fit?also anyone have any idea on where to get the exhaust done?dont say pitstop

Ring these guys to talk about ecu tuning http://www.torqueperformance.co.nz/subaru.php , however from my research the later BE ecu will not fit (if anyone knows different please let us know) and the guts of it is that in New Zealand only post mid 2000 Legacy ecus are tunable as TP havent purchased the ability to tune earlier ecu's from Ecutek. I believe there is a place in Wellington offering open source Evo and Wrx tuning however this does not extend to pre mid 2000 Legacys (again please prove me wrong with a tuners contact number).

My B4 is on the wrong side of 2000 so I asked about using a ZS controller to control the sequential turbos and a four plug Apexi Power FC or Link Ecu for tuning. Torque said they had seen this done 'but not very successfully'. Read this as 'would take some time to tune and cost $$$'. Bare in mind the ZS controller is around $500 new or $350 on TM, an Apexi PowerFC and contoller would go for around $850 to $1000 on TM or around $1500 new.

I just picked up a Mines tuned ecu (reprogramed Subaru) on trademe for $450 and after one drive last night I'm pretty excited about the performance increase and big reduction in VOD. I'm not so excited about potential detonation due to its tuning for Jap 100 Octane. I'm booking some dyno time at Torque to listen for issues before giving it a/more of a trashing.

These ecu's seem to go for $300 to $500 on tardme, here is an example from Prova that just sold http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=209143181 for $295. Here is a BD series Prova ECU review http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~ccgrant/prova.htm thanks Colin.

Please note the Mines are generally thought to have 'much more agressive timing advance', Prova are considered to be a safer option. After the usual BEB failure last year I had a rebuild with forged 8:1 compression ratio pistons so am hoping this will keep the detonation under control, failing this I'll look into water injection.

Other cheap mods I've picked up on trademe, a Greddy Profec B Spec II Boost controller $250, Prova extractors for $300, Rage downpipes for $200, intercooler water sprayer with 20 litre tank $100, and I'll purchase an HKS Hi-Power Silent Exhaust from Redline http://www.redlineperformance.co.nz/?action=products&part=18138 $495 diff back and $495 Cat back when funds allow.

With these mods I feel like I'm driving a new car, and I feel it was the ecu upgrade that has made the biggest impact. If you drive a post 2000 Legacy I'd recommend the TP Ecutek tuning, if not I'd say look out for aftermarket tuned ecu's on trademe for best bang for buck power/drivability increases...

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 lotech49 said:

I just picked up a Mines tuned ecu (reprogramed Subaru) on trademe for $450

i hate you. i wanted that. just didn't get home in time to bid again. >:(

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 RSB said:

Good Point. I believe a full 2.5" turbo back system with a siamese downpipe on the primary works wonders. Only issue is that pre EJ20R, such a mod has a tendancy to overspool. I've been told that EJ20Rs onwards arent at such risck of overspool, But i can't comment on the accuracy of that information!

I just made a point about that in another thread. I think worst case scenario, if it acutally does over spool badly, then it'd be a good time to get a good boost controller like an AVC-R.

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 jake_the_muss']

[quote name='lotech49 said:

I just picked up a Mines tuned ecu (reprogramed Subaru) on trademe for $450

/quote]

i hate you. i wanted that. just didn't get home in time to bid again. >:(

Hmm yeah sorry about that, such is the auction process. I had an auto-bid on up to $600 although I think $450 is about what they're worth, that Prova three plug went for $295. They do come up regularly and I keep an eye out, I'll pm you next time I see one come up. Ultimately I'm going to do a single turbo conversion, and then I'll sell all these parts again I'll let you know.

I've booked dyno time at Torque Performance for Monday morning, I'll post results....

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no worries. it figures that a few of us on here might be interested in it. ah well. if ya do see any more, that would be great. cheers.

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