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Baffled sump


AdamOst

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Been speaking with Al at Macbilt, various options available; can modify factory sump to increase capacity and add baffles, windage, etc for about $1,000. Or they do a Group A sump worth about $1,700, this is a full custom facricated sump and require headers to mount to their mock block so they can ensure it will clear the headers. AL mentioned that he simply has a modified factory sump on his race car and has had no problems with it.

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Everyone does it differently, I would recommend baffling the sump at least and you may as well go enlarged sump.

Plenty however use PBMS modified oem sump and it seems to work ok, even on the Subaru renowned killer track of Hampton downs.

Others don\'t bother and just put more oil in the standard sump to guard against the surge issue I know a few dedicated track Subaru\'s that do this. I was told not to do that though by my engine builder and I personally went for enlarged aftermarket baffled sump but also added a few more for good measure.

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 ballsrburning said:

Everyone does it differently, I would recommend baffling the sump at least and you may as well go enlarged sump.

Plenty however use PBMS modified oem sump and it seems to work ok, even on the Subaru renowned killer track of Hampton downs.

Others don\'t bother and just put more oil in the standard sump to guard against the surge issue I know a few dedicated track Subaru\'s that do this. I was told not to do that though by my engine builder and I personally went for enlarged aftermarket baffled sump but also added a few more for good measure.

What aftermarket sump did you end up going with?

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Company went belly up, hyperflow tank but I modded it further. The general jist is they are all pretty similar macbilt are worth the money but maybe overkill depends on what the car is used for.

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Best Bang for Buck (at the risk of starting another argument) is going to be the swappa deal with PBMS. Many people have run them. They are cheap at ~$250. You choose the donor sump, so you can use whatever fits your headers. You don\'t get increased capacity, but of course you can safely overfill half a litre or so anyway.

If you have another $750 to $1500 to throw at it, go to someone like Al who has run properly fast Subaru race cars at most if not all NZ tracks and knows what he is on about. If you have another $1000 to throw at it on top of that, then despite the "anything can fail" sentiment, go with a dry sump setup and expect something else to fail you first (like your ECU or your rods or your pistons or your catch can setup or your driving ...).

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 GC8E2DD said:

Best Bang for Buck (at the risk of starting another argument) is going to be the swappa deal with PBMS. Many people have run them. They are cheap at ~$250. You choose the donor sump, so you can use whatever fits your headers. You don\'t get increased capacity, but of course you can safely overfill half a litre or so anyway.

If you have another $750 to $1500 to throw at it, go to someone like Al who has run properly fast Subaru race cars at most if not all NZ tracks and knows what he is on about. If you have another $1000 to throw at it on top of that, then despite the "anything can fail" sentiment, go with a dry sump setup and expect something else to fail you first (like your ECU or your rods or your pistons or your catch can setup or your driving ...).

+1

It all depends on use, if you\'re occasional track user then PBms option is probably fine, If you\'re dedicated track car and true race enthusiast then macbilt is the better option, if I had the money I would dry sump it, all the top cars do and there\'s a reason for that.

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Maintaining sump vacuum aids your oil pump. Bigger or baffled sump obviously allows "bubble settle out" too.

A well setup breather system/good sump crankcase vacuum and the subaru will not lose pump suction in hi "G" cornering.

Most engines where the driver (subaru specific) has said or has had the oil pressure fluctuation/loss during cornering have a catch can system to atmosphere. The original breather system also altered/disconnected.

I see two ways to sort it out, Bigger, baffled sump or Better crankcase evacuation.

Better evacuation also removes moisture,gasses,and oilmist,Less air being swirled around too.

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 soopersubaru said:

Maintaining sump vacuum aids your oil pump. Bigger or baffled sump obviously allows "bubble settle out" too.

A well setup breather system/good sump crankcase vacuum and the subaru will not lose pump suction in hi "G" cornering.

Most engines where the driver (subaru specific) has said or has had the oil pressure fluctuation/loss during cornering have a catch can system to atmosphere. The original breather system also altered/disconnected.

I see two ways to sort it out, Bigger, baffled sump or Better crankcase evacuation.

Better evacuation also removes moisture,gasses,and oilmist,Less air being swirled around too.

Interesting how exactlywould you make evacuation better?

on a slightly different note has anyone heared that oil catch cans can no longer have filters on them to atoms, they have to be a sealed unit, you went get cert with filter or so I have been told I just got one made without filter.

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 soopersubaru said:

About time they come down and applied the regs on catch can systems with respect to fuming filter vents. WOF inspectors will be onto it soon as well.

To create good crankcase vacuum there are a couple of ways.

Here is some reading. http://www.clubsub.org.nz/forum/index.php/topic,40976.0.html

That system has already been shot down... and still vents to the atmosphere. ::)

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 loner']

[quote name='soopersubaru said:

About time they come down and applied the regs on catch can systems with respect to fuming filter vents. WOF inspectors will be onto it soon as well.

To create good crankcase vacuum there are a couple of ways.

Here is some reading. url]http://www.clubsub.org.nz/forum/index.php/topic,40976.0.html[/url]

That system has already been shot down... and still vents to the atmosphere. ::)

NO FURTHER COMMENT FROM ME. >:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(>:( >:(

SEE WHY http://www.clubsub.org.nz/forum/index.php/topic,41290.0.html

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 ballsrburning said:

Everyone does it differently, I would recommend baffling the sump at least and you may as well go enlarged sump.

Plenty however use PBMS modified oem sump and it seems to work ok, even on the Subaru renowned killer track of Hampton downs.

Others don\'t bother and just put more oil in the standard sump to guard against the surge issue I know a few dedicated track Subaru\'s that do this. I was told not to do that though by my engine builder and I personally went for enlarged aftermarket baffled sump but also added a few more for good measure.

I feel I need to add that the driver is at least 50% of the equation when it comes to breaking engines due to oiling issues.

Some people have a lot of reliability as frankly they are pussies and don\'t drive fast enough to break them. Others (myself included if I am honest) drive poorly and often break things. Then others drive hard and well and learn from their experiences and build systems to suit. The third category is who I would take advice from.

I would personally listen to someone like Al Maclennan as he knows his shit. I would also seek advice from someone like Albaru, or Tony on this forum, who both have more experience racing Subaru\'s than the rest of us combined.

As for what I run, tried a Macbilt one second hand, but had issues as someone had damaged the sump itself (leaks mainly). However never had oiling issues while running it. I currently run a KillerBee sump and have not managed to break it, but only done 1 rally and 3 sprints on that motor. Which is not really enough to develop a verdict yet.

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I broke my engine on the 1st outing on the track with semi-slicks. Al Maclennan rebuilt engine and installed a Macbilt baffled sump. It has not broken since.

Since the rebuild, the car has done 8½ years and 90,000kms and every one of the kms has either been on a track or pretty much driving to a track :) [it\'s also still my daily driver too but am careful about carparks.]

It\'s done a shitload of trackdays, sealed autocrosses, sealed hillclimbs, sealed bent sprints where there is a lot of sideways acceleration which is the bit where the oil fails to find the oil pickup because it\'s busy climbing the sump walls. Car hasn\'t broke (touch wood), because Al Maclennan installed a magic baffled sump, and I keep changing the oil and keep the oil level topped up.

Not much of a story there really. I did what many people do, which is to take advice from someone I trust. The key is to find the right person to take the advice from.

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 GC8E2DD said:

I guess that makes me a pussy eh Viv =]

One bottom end, and one gearbox in 5 years on a 240,000km Impreza. Probably 30-40 events.

Sam you would be in the category of having learnt a few things, but you already know that... What sump do you run anyway and have you been back to Manfield since learning about Subaru oiling issues there?

Loren, that would depend on who you are comparing to and whether you compare apples to apples (ie both in same car class). I seem to remember the last time we turned up at an event and competed in comparable cars that the faster person wasn\'t you... I am also quite accepting of getting beaten by pussies in faster cars, that\'s the reality of racing, often the cheque book is the key to going faster. And I never said I was in the third category of skilled people! Just that I am mean on my car and break shit.

And I have never called you a pussy I might add. Sometimes a little rude, but I expect that!

And thanks Al, that is why I recommended people talk to you...

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 Munkvy']

[quote name='GC8E2DD said:

I guess that makes me a pussy eh Viv =]

One bottom end, and one gearbox in 5 years on a 240,000km Impreza. Probably 30-40 events.

Sam you would be in the category of having learnt a few things, but you already know that... What sump do you run anyway and have you been back to Manfield since learning about Subaru oiling issues there?

Loren, that would depend on who you are comparing to and whether you compare apples to apples (ie both in same car class). I seem to remember the last time we turned up at an event and competed in comparable cars that the faster person wasn\'t you... I am also quite accepting of getting beaten by pussies in faster cars, that\'s the reality of racing, often the cheque book is the key to going faster. And I never said I was in the third category of skilled people! Just that I am mean on my car and break s***.

And I have never called you a pussy I might add. Sometimes a little rude, but I expect that!

And thanks Al, that is why I recommended people talk to you...

I wasn\'t comparing us... just trying to figure out what qualifies someone as a pussy driver... it sounds like it\'s based purely breakages...

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