B4 and B4 RSK question

[Guest]

Hi guys, I'm looking for a car, and my friend introduced me to Subaru. I was looking at the Legacy and Impreza, and I had some questions that I couldn't figure out the answer to from reading Wikipedia (confused me) and surfing the net (didn't really find anything). I hope you guys can help:

- I saw some car ads that lists several different versions of the Legacy: B4, B4 Turbo, B4 Twin Turbo, B4 RSK. Are all of these the same car, just different titled listing?

- If there are differences between those Legacy B4 models, what are the main differences? I'm basically looking for the top of the line for these cars, but if the differences serves different functions (i.e. one is more for off-roading, and the other is more for racing), then it'd be helpful to know.

- I also saw car ads listing several different versions of the Impreza: WRX STi, WRX Turbo, WRX Twin Turbo. Are all of these different as well?

- Are there differences for those Impreza WRX models? Just like the Legacy, I'm also looking for the top of the line for these cars, so I'd like to know the differences.

I realize these might require a very detailed answer, but ANY help, no matter how small, would be appreciated here. Thanks a lot guys.

Oh, and hi, I'm a potential Subaru owner new to here

[DRFVDR]

easy as

Legacy go for the RSK B4 (turbo,AWD)

Impreza go for the WRX STi (turbo AWD)

the other models are lesser ones

ALL WRX are single turbo and AWD the STi are tuned better and have better bits in them(pink bits)

The Legacy went from the very early model as a single turbo,to a few years dabble in twin turbos and back to single turbo (93 to TT not 100 percent sure when they went back 2000 maybe)

The RSK B4 come wid all the fruit but RS meaning Rally Sport(to some) the K is for Kompressor=turbo the B4 is still under discussion but means either Boxer 4(the engine) or Bilstein 4 the suspension

Also the real top of the line for the legacy would be the Blitzen or the S204

[Guest]

That's interesting....... Wikipedia says the Blitzen wasn't introduced until 2001, but trademe has a few 2000 Blitzen listed.......... so confusing to figure out what's what. Dang, what's up with those spoilers..........

[ReubenH]

Don't trust the wikipedia, it's written by americans, who don't know jack about japanese subies... Half don't even know we had turbo model subies before 2002. (that's when america finally got turbo'd subies after about 8-9 years without)

The gen 3's you're looking at, B4 turbo, B4 twin turbo, B4 RSK, they are all the same thing more or less. The difference in models to look out for is the B, little blue and yellow badge on the boot. They are the high trim models of the "B4 turbo's", with better suspension.

Legacy's were twin turbo for Gen 2 and Gen 3, 93 till 03.

Also, make sure you buy a manual, they are better. End of story.

[Carbon]

Blitzens are pretty much cosmetic - bilstein suspension, alloys and a body kit. You might find them with the original double din sony minidisc, but usually swapped out for a better stereo. Late 01/02 models changed to a normal spoiler and added driving lights.

[Guest]

 ReubenH said:

Don't trust the wikipedia, it's written by americans, who don't know jack about japanese subies... Half don't even know we had turbo model subies before 2002. (that's when america finally got turbo'd subies after about 8-9 years without)

The gen 3's you're looking at, B4 turbo, B4 twin turbo, B4 RSK, they are all the same thing more or less. The difference in models to look out for is the B, little blue and yellow badge on the boot. They are the high trim models of the "B4 turbo's", with better suspension.

Legacy's were twin turbo for Gen 2 and Gen 3, 93 till 03.

Also, make sure you buy a manual, they are better. End of story.

Of course I'll be getting a manual Even if I never race, I just can't stand driving automatics, I dunno why. I've been driving manual for 7 years, and I just can't go back.

In any case, is there a website I can go to that has all the different models listed for the Legacy? I saw another link from this forum that had a chart, but it was in Japanese, and my browser just saw squares instead of Japanese characters, so I couldn't figure out what's what. Plus I was afraid that NZ gets slightly different models anyway, so I was hoping someone had a chart of all the different types. As of right now, I'm basically looking for the Blitzen with the "B little blue and yellow badge on the boot".

I love the Blitzen front bumper/grill, but I really can't stand that spoiler >_< So, Carbon mentioned that Blitzen model has better suspension. ReubenH mentioned that the one with the "B little blue and yellow badge on the boot" also has better suspension. I'm assuming you two are both just talking about the Blitzen right?

I prefer the '00 Blitzen model over the '02 one for some reason. Looks nicer to me. Cept for that zig-zag spoiler. Is there a difference in power between the '00 and '02 models?

[Carbon]

Yeah, Im biased, the blitzen is one of the sexier legacy front ends. The jury is out on the spoiler, but why be normal?

No difference in power, but the late 01/02 model gets the ECU that can be tuned - so that would be a preference

[Guest keltik]

Have a play on here: http://english.auto.vl.ru/catalog/subaru/

[Guest]

 Carbon said:

Yeah, Im biased, the blitzen is one of the sexier legacy front ends. The jury is out on the spoiler, but why be normal?

No difference in power, but the late 01/02 model gets the ECU that can be tuned - so that would be a preference

Just so I'm clear, my understanding is that the 2000 model looks like this:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Subaru/RSK/auction-234006049.htm

The 2002 model looks like this:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Subaru/Legacy/auction-229945518.htm

Aside from the exterior differences, are there any other way to spot a fake Blitzen? I keep seeing people calling out fake Blitzen for sale, and I can't tell who's telling the truth. Are all Blitzen full-leather for instance? It's hard to figure out what's what, because I can't find a site that has a list of all the standard stock Blitzen with images, and on top of that a bunch of these cars are modified, which is confusing me even more.

Since the '02 Blitzen gets the ECU that can be tuned, what about the normal '02 B4 RSK, do they get it too?

[Guest keltik]

The people who call fake Blitzen dont know the difference between the words Bilstein and Blitzen. Bilstein models have a wee yellow badge on the boot lid. Blitzen models have funky body kits. Blitzen Bilstein B4's have both

Bilstein = 10billion times better shocks

Blitzen = exactly the same as any other B4 but with a fancy bodykit designed by Porsche

[D-Style]

The Blitzen Bumpers are really really expensive. ($1500 SH each if you can find one) and a new rear bumper is about $4500.

So why would you fake a blitzen if there are heaps of other cooler body kits that are less expensive?

If i was buying another BE/BH shape Blitzen i would go for the '02 (I like the new dash custer, headlights, and body kit)

Early blitzens ('99, "00) came with half leather/cloth. It was an option to get full leather.

'01 came with full leather standard.

They also came with a Front LSD standard

The Blistein shocks/springs are different to normal B4.

Engine is same as B4.

Also when I sold Blitzen and later my V9 STi I always had knobs telling me that my cars was a "fake".

[Guest]

Wow, okay. Time to do research on Bilstein I guess. So there's a B4 RSK, a B4 Blitzen, a B4 Bilstein, and a B4 Blitzen Bilstein. Well, I'm glad Subaru gave us options at least....... If the only difference between a Blitzen Bilstein compared to a normal Blitzen is just the shocks/springs, is it not possible to just buy the Bilstein suspension and get that installed? Anyone got a pic of their Bilstein sticker on the boot? I did a google image search and came up empty.

Also, what about my other question: Since the '02 Blitzen gets the ECU that can be tuned, what about the normal '02 B4 RSK, do they get it too?

I'm just gonna guess this B4 RSK STi is some super special edition: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Subaru/B4/auction-235445733.htm

I mean, 290hp.........

Sorry for the barrage of questions, just that all of my resources are US sites, and things are different there. The Subaru site doesn't have much on older models, so I'm trying to gather as much as I can by just asking around.

[Guest keltik]

Standard Blitzens are about 260bhp. That link is not an STI. They never made an STI B4 as far as i know. The link i posted is mostly accurate. Forget about model names as most things could be optioned on any model. Just look for whatever features you want i.e Leather, half leather, climate control, bilstein shocks, blitzen kit or standard B4. You cant go too far wrong.

I wouldnt worry about the tunable ECU as you cant really get much more power out of the twin turbos. Find one that hasnt had a pod air filter fitted and find one thats had the cambelt done already or doesnt need it for a while.

[Guest]

 keltik said:

Standard Blitzens are about 260bhp. That link is not an STI. They never made an STI B4 as far as i know. The link i posted is mostly accurate. Forget about model names as most things could be optioned on any model. Just look for whatever features you want i.e Leather, half leather, climate control, bilstein shocks, blitzen kit or standard B4. You cant go too far wrong.

I wouldnt worry about the tunable ECU as you cant really get much more power out of the twin turbos. Find one that hasnt had a pod air filter fitted and find one thats had the cambelt done already or doesnt need it for a while.

Cool cool, thanks for all this btw, you guys have helped out a lot and I've also learned a lot. It's very much appreciated!

[ReubenH]

Yeah, keltiks right, simply a face lift RSK.

And keltic, they most certainly did do an STi B4. It was called the S401... They are rare as anything though, and have STI wheels, Brembo's, big hood scoop, painted in sonic blue, 6 spd, etc. etc.

http://www.subaru-sti.co.jp/s401/index.html

[Guest]

Keltik is right- no B4 STi

Standard B4/Blitzen were supposed to have 280 hp (205 kw) from the factory.

the later ECU applies to both models, as they are the same, mechanically. it is only the cosmetic differences that distinguish between them.

The only other thing to be aware of was the 2003 Legacy Sti S401- the last of these gen 3 legacies, and by many accounts the best. it is similar to a B4 or Blitzen, in that it is a 2.0L twin turbo, but has the STi 6 speed manual transmission, and some other bits. also, came in BLUE.

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~ccgrant/s401.htm

can't find one on trademe though... otherwise i might be VERY tempted.

When picking one of these cars, decide on a couple things:

manual or auto (manual of course)

twin turbo or none (twin turbo!- there were a FEW B4's made non-turbo. easy way to tell is look at the hood, no scoop no turbo)

sedan or wagon (i assume you want a sedan, but the GTB wagons are mechanically the same, if you're interested)

leater/cloth or full leather (if full, do you want it black/blue or all black)

color: white, silver, black, purpley-blue (not subaru blue), red (blitzen only AFAIK). that's it.

try to find one with as low of km's as you can afford, but also know that if it is around 90,000-100,000 km then a big service including cambelt replacement is due.

look for one with the original factory airbox, these models do not like pod filters, the air flow meter stops working correctly

a boost gauge will tell you if the two turbos are working properly (12 psi primary, 14 psi secondary or thereabouts), but if not the seat of the pants test should tell you as well.

feel free to post trademe links and people on here will be happy to let you know what they think of them.

good luck, and welcome.

oh yeah, and get a good alarm.

[Guest keltik]

And lets not be forgetting the B4 RS30 which was a highly specced 3liter H6 non turbo but only came in auto. No cambelts, no turbos to explode and better gas mileage. However as i said - no manual ones ever made.

[Guest]

i've only seen one once, but it just had a RS30 badge, no B4 badge...?

but yes, that is another option. would be quite cool with a STi 6spd...

[Guest]

Just realized I forgot something: Seems like Bilstein-suspension-equipped RSKs/Blitzens are scarce. I assume it's possible to get Bilstein shocks installed. How much do you think parts + labor would cost?

[Guest]

all B4's have bilstein suspension. i'm not aware of this "bilstein" edition with the blue and yellow badge.

the blue and yellow badge in Keltik's picture is from a GTB wagon, which is equivalent to a B4. a B4 doesn't need that badge.

the GT wagon and the RS sedan should be equivalent, and the GTB wagon and B4 sedan should be equivalent.

so to get a gen3 twin turbo legacy sedan, without bilsteins, you'd be looking at a RS, not a B4.

[Guest]

 

Standard Blitzens are about 260bhp. That link is not an STI. They never made an STI B4 as far as i know. The link i posted is mostly accurate. Forget about model names as most things could be optioned on any model. Just look for whatever features you want i.e Leather, half leather, climate control, bilstein shocks, blitzen kit or standard B4. You cant go too far wrong.

I wouldnt worry about the tunable ECU as you cant really get much more power out of the twin turbos.

JDM twin turbos were rated at 280 hp not 260, however it is believed that the power may have been a little higher as it is generally excepted that Subaru falsified the power outputs on paper so they could meet local restrictions on power which were 280hp as a maximum.

The twin turbo system can make lots more power. A full exhaust and a tunable ECU such as an HKS EVC4 can make a big difference. For example, the Pleasure Racing Service workshops GTB makes 330hp with the normal turbine sequential setup, or the Co-ckpit 310 Sayama demo car makes 360hp from the sequential.

Heres a picture of the Sti (S401) Legacy BE. Yes they did make one, and yes it came with a 6 speed.

[Guest keltik]

non turbo poo spec ones were also called B4. Last time we had that rant it was decided nobody knows what B4 actually means and probably doesnt mean Bilstein

The new sedans are also called B4 but only the B-Spec gets bilstein suspension.

[Guest]

 keltik said:

non turbo poo spec ones were also called B4. Last time we had that rant it was decided nobody knows what B4 actually means and probably doesnt mean Bilstein

agreed, they can be turbo or non-turbo, but i'm fairly certain they all have bilsteins... that's why none of them are driving around with the bilstein badge a la GTB...

[Guest keltik]

 jake_the_muss']

[quote name='keltik said:

non turbo poo spec ones were also called B4. Last time we had that rant it was decided nobody knows what B4 actually means and probably doesnt mean Bilstein

/quote]

agreed, they can be turbo or non-turbo, but i'm fairly certain they all have bilsteins... that's why none of them are driving around with the bilstein badge a la GTB...

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Guest]

chop