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What diff is this and can it be made better?


nztintin

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I pulled the rear diff out of my race car for something to do, found it is the same as the diff in this video

trying to find more info on what it is and if i can make it lock quicker/better for track work

From what I've found its a viscous diff?? anyone had luck shimming them?

 

cheers for any info

 

 

 

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Shimming only works on plated diffs. Throw it out and get a Cusco plated diff to go in there.

Putting a thicker oil in there might help a bit, but the key problem is that these diffs don't lock

when torque is applied.

Edited by Loren
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5 hours ago, Loren said:

Shimming only works on plated diffs. Throw it out and get a Cusco plated diff to go in there.

Putting a thicker oil in there might help a bit, but the key problem is that these diffs don't lock

when torque is applied.

Yeah would love a proper plated diff but funds wont allow that at the moment. Was just curious to see what the car had in it and if it could be improved cheaply.

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11 hours ago, GC8E2DD said:

Which would be a big deal if you were driving it to work every day.

Hard to finish a race with a snapped axle. Even a tight mechanical lsd has some give. A welded different doesn't. And where he may have been getting 4 races out of a set of semis, that may now only be 3. It's something to consider, and up to him to decide if the risk and costs are worth it to him. You can help, or you can be a cock.

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51 minutes ago, boostin said:

Hard to finish a race with a snapped axle. Even a tight mechanical lsd has some give. A welded different doesn't. And where he may have been getting 4 races out of a set of semis, that may now only be 3. It's something to consider, and up to him to decide if the risk and costs are worth it to him. You can help, or you can be a cock.

 

lol, I don't think anyone one is insisting that he weld the diff up :)

 

I also think you are exaggerating the wear factor by quite a lot. The rear tyres get bugger all wear compared to the front, as 60% of

the weight is at the front, 60% of the torque is at the front for a non dccd gearbox, and they do all the turning.

 

The car will be more stable and more predictable in oversteer situations. It will feel more planted and give the driver the confidence

to push harder and go faster.

 

 

Edited by Loren
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15 hours ago, boostin said:

Hard to finish a race with a snapped axle. ... You can help, or you can be a cock.

 

Yes. I don't think I've ever watched a V8 Supercar race where they've snapped an axle. Are you talking from experience here?

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I'm tempted to weld up the spare viscous diff I have and try it, but I think i'd be getting some spare axles in case. at least if its welded and it snaps and axle it'll still drive...

The supersix commodore/falcon race cars run welded diffs and don't seem to break too much related to that, but they are running a limited tyre size too.

 

on a side note I thought I'd try chuck a suretrac diff in that i acquired a while ago but found they need equal length axle stubs and mine arnt. will keep a lookout for some axles incase i get motivated again.

 

 

 

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http://brunsolutions.com.au/downloads/d1-nzhowtoshim.pdf
heres the old d1nz Nissan diff shining guide, few links on the internet suggest it's the same unit as the Subaru unit on the inside.
 
Could always check if anyone on here or a low end model has the stubs you need to run the good diff.


That was what I was referring to by shimming the diff, doesn’t sound like any Subaru guys have done it, and the drift guys sound like it doesn’t last very long?? I also can’t see how it works now I know what the viscous coupling is, all the shims would do is mash the viscous coupler and the other side harder into the spider gears, the viscous coupler is still going to slip as much as it wants.


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Apologies... I have never heard of shimming a viscous diff and as above, can't see how it will be effective.

It will either just mash the spider gears together or possibly the viscous housing is a little bit flexible and

it will put the fluid under a small amount of pressure... but seems like a futile exercise to me :0

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18 hours ago, nztintin said:

on a side note I thought I'd try chuck a suretrac diff in that i acquired a while ago but found they need equal length axle stubs and mine arnt. will keep a lookout for some axles incase i get motivated again.

 

 

 

Front? can you cut one of the axle stubs?

I remember with my 6sp conversion I had cut one of my axles stubs down, but I think it was the rear to suit the 3.9 r160

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@nztintin Yeah that sums it up alright average results at best and high wear rate. If the spiders are already wearing then it will be unpredictable. I think maybe it's binding the coupler to the diff housing so it will be forced to turn the shaft, or its just crushed so it locks up.

There was a Subaru post somewhere that did the same but no results posted. That's how I found that d1nz link the first time.

 

@Loren yeah I don't get it fully either but the Nissan guys get results with it so it kind of works.

 

thicker oil or a new unit in the diff sounds like the only reasonable options.

Is the coupler sealed or can you open it? Could get a new set of plates (dealer will tell you if there's a rebuild kit) to go in it or fill it with thick grease and seal it up.

If you where going to weld it then sell the LSD and F*** an open diff with welding. Assuming the LSD is worth more to someone else.

 

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Front? can you cut one of the axle stubs?
I remember with my 6sp conversion I had cut one of my axles stubs down, but I think it was the rear to suit the 3.9 r160

Nah rear diff, the left axle works and the right axle fits in but doesn’t hold, the locking ring is in a different position.
[mention=448]nztintin[/mention] Yeah that sums it up alright average results at best and high wear rate. If the spiders are already wearing then it will be unpredictable. I think maybe it's binding the coupler to the diff housing so it will be forced to turn the shaft, or its just crushed so it locks up.
There was a Subaru post somewhere that did the same but no results posted. That's how I found that d1nz link the first time.
 
[mention=21050]Loren[/mention] yeah I don't get it fully either but the Nissan guys get results with it so it kind of works.
 
thicker oil or a new unit in the diff sounds like the only reasonable options.
Is the coupler sealed or can you open it? Could get a new set of plates (dealer will tell you if there's a rebuild kit) to go in it or fill it with thick grease and seal it up.
If you where going to weld it then sell the LSD and F*** an open diff with welding. Assuming the LSD is worth more to someone else.
 

The coupler is sealed from what I can see
I’ve got a couple of the viscous diffs in my collection of parts, they seem to be pretty common but yeah I could track down an open and weld that or get those elcheapo “lsd” clamp things that you put in an open diff to make it lsd and try them.
http://s.aliexpress.com/3IjeM3YZ
If only my ratio was more common and I could afford to risk the crown wheel etc having metal go through them.


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Pitty the Nissan ones seemed to have a circlip which would have been nice.

Looks like Mitsubishi one from galant is the same and pressed or welded together.

 

Those LSD spring plates are just long life shims the alloy breaks down before the gears. But if the gears are worn the springs allow it to be more predictable. Used to be a few hundred each and common in America.

 

 

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15 hours ago, nztintin said:

those last ones are the axles in my car at the moment, the right one i cant get to sit in properly as the circlip needs to be further in like the lhs one

Actually you could be right, I may have cut a circlip grove into the rhs one further up the spline. Too long ago.

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