Panda
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Posts posted by Panda
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8 minutes ago, Loren said:
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Don't worry, the gears will grind the circlips into dust in no time.
Yea well....your right....but I'd prefer to keep my oil non-sparkly😅
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12 minutes ago, boon said:
Dealer techs aren't going to be the greatest source of what is normal, usually, because as you highlighted, 99% of the cars they see are the "ordinary" ones, whereas obviously a place like ClubSub or some niche Subaru guy is going to have a concentration of "weird" Subarus.
As you have clearly discovered there's a pretty enormous list of possible variations of axle+diff centre+diff housing, each possibly having a unique configuration.
Don't overthink this one. If you can think of a way your rear axles could come out during normal operation without there first being a catastrophic failure of some suspension component I'm all ears.
I don't see how the axles could come out either.....I was more concerned about the unknowns surrounding whether or not the circlips have seated in properly.....or if they have broken or had been pushed through into the centre of the diff ready to go for a ride through the gears.
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Just thought I'd let you guys know that I have been in touch with 4 Subaru dealer technicians, two qualified mechanics and the Subaru tuning specialist to tunes my car. I have got a variety of different responses, the mechanics think the clips should NOT be left in the diff...the dealership technicians have contradicting opinions, some say they should be left in the diff, some say they shouldn't and one guy reckoned there shouldn't be any at all!?. The Subaru specialist was absolutely adament that the clips are supposed to be left in there (on a R180) and he had many colourful things to say about the dealership technicians as he thinks they should know better.
Another thing I learnt is that the front axles ALWAYS has clips that come out the "normal" traditional way.
My research told me that there are varying different varieties of Subaru diffs that use both methods (clips staying in is a bit rare and niche though I believe), therefore I decided that because they were both left in the diff it is more likely to be by design than by something going wrong....and the tuning workshop guy really convinced me as he deals with the older performance Subarus opposed to the dealership mostly doing new stuff.....and the qualified mechanics wouldn't be super familiar with niche Subaru things in particular.
So I popped them back in with a tap of the heavy hammer....applied some pressure with a prybar to confirm they were locked in....they were......then I pulled them out and looked at the circlips to make sure they were still in the same position as I first saw them and hadn't sheared off or broken......I put them back in and repeated about 3 times until I felt comfortable about them.
I haven't put oil back in or driven it yet ....but if anything goes wrong I'll be sure to post about it here!
Also when I pryed to make sure they were locked in I noticed there was a bit of side to side play in axel when applying pressure to confirm the axles were locked into the diff.....probably about 2 or 3mm of movement? Is this normal? It made me a bit uneasy as I don't understand how it can have play if the circlips have locked it into the grooves? None the less the axles required quite a lot of pressure to pop them out so I assume they are locked in properly?
Has anyone got an opinion about this?
many thanks to all..... I'll be sure to let you know when I have a whining rear end and grey pastey, sparkly diff oil 😅
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Upon a bit of research I believe I have an R180 diff. Even pulled axles out of these in particular?
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3 minutes ago, Loren said:
It should be pretty obvious by the depth of the groove. A deep groove on the axle stub will probably mean a circlip is supposed to be present. A shallow groove probably
means the circlip is inside the diff. You can also put your finger in the diff and see if you can feel the circlip... should be easy enough.
Yea okay that's a good thought. The Clips are MOST DEFINITELY still inside the diff. Looking through one axle hole I can see all the way through to the other side and there is definitely a clip on each side. They are still seated in their grooves.
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Any idea on how I can confirm whether or not they should be in there? Because they are left behind it would be likely that they are supposed to right?
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Hey all,
I'm sure this has been asked before but I've been browsing the web and have been finding very conflicting information about whether the rear axles are supposed to have circlips on them, or whether the clips stay in the diff.
On the weekend I dropped my whole entire rear subframe to replace the diff bushings on my 2006 Legacy GT. This of course included popping the axles out of the rear diff and removing the diff.
I did the normal method of prying the axles out of the diff and they popped out without too much of a struggle, however I couldn't help but notice that there were no circlips on the ends of either of the axles. After not much investigating I did sure enough find that BOTH circlips have been left behind and are still sitting in the grooves in the diff! (Would like to upload photo but max upload size is only 200kB).
I started getting really worried because axles on a front wheel drive Nissan I once pulled out came out with the circlips.... I read on some random forum that this is normal and that the axles will push back through the middle of the circlips when you reinstall.... I've ALSO read that this is not supposed to happen and that I must somehow fish the clips out, put them back on the axles and install the axles with the clips already on them!
I've read that the rear axles leave the clips in the diff.....and the front axles come out with the clips?
Can someone who has done this a few times please clear up my confusion and let me know whether ...
A. Everything is fine, it's normal for the circlips to get left behind in the diff by design. To reinstall the axles they will simply click back in.
Or
B. Something has gone wrong, the circlips should be in the groove at the end of the axles when you remove it. I will have to somehow fish these clips out of the diff without them falling down the middle. Once I have them out of the diff I have to put them back in their grooves on the axles and then they are ready to be pushed back into the diff.
Vehicle is a 2006 EJ20Y turbo legacy with the 6 speed manual.
Any advice is greatly appreciated, many thanks for your time🙏.
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Hi all. Doing a cambelt and wpump change tomorrow, found some old notes of mine that I just wanted to confirm with others that they are correct before I write them in my new "Subaru cheat book" of torque specs😀.
Can anyone help confirm that these torque specs for the EJ20Y (I assume all EJ's) are correct!
Large cambelt idlers including the hydraulic tensioner - 39Nm
The singular small cambelt idler - 25Nm
waterpump - 12Nm, starting at the 2 O' clock bolt and moving clockwise. Do two 12Nm passes all the way around the six bolts.
Thermostat housing - 12Nm
main crank pulley (Harmonic balancer) - 44Nm followed by 45° (should equal approximately 130Nm)
I also add a small amount of Loctite Blue to all idlers and the tensioners....what are your opinions about the Loctite Blue?
Does anyone oppose my torque specs? many thanks everyone! 😀
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11 hours ago, Rapidcrazy said:
Im in the process of rebuilding my first ej20 at the moment, its not done so I cant say what Ive done works, Im mentally prepared for it to pop on the first drive =]
I ran a bearing, so I bought a donor motor and had the block cleaned and decked, with a light hone for the new rings,
Im sticking with the stock pistons and rods that were in it, just new bearings and rings, and a complete gasket kit, all parts are from rockauto, and Im reusing my stock oil pump because the clearances were ok,
Its just a project car so Ive been taking my time and its quite enjoyable, learning alot too,
Im up to the head rebuild now, but ive passed that part to a recon shop,
If i can help with any questions let me know!
Just like you, this is meant to be a wee project for me....I already have another EZ Subaru to drive around and this is just my weekend car so I don't mind if it's off the road.
....what are the clearances you checked in regard to your oil pump?
....did the machine shop check your crank, crank journals, hardness test on blocks and heads, crack test pistons, check bores etc?
....or did they only do what you said, blocks cleaned and decked with a light hone?
How much did your bill come to? I'm expecting the whole rebuild including parts and machine shop fees to come to a bit over two grand?
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On 9/02/2024 at 3:24 PM, boon said:
Q1. No, no gains, if anything you will slightly _lose_ as the aftermarket rods and pistons are potentially heavier, less well balanced, and not quite as good a fit as OEM. Assuming identical geometry, i.e. not gaining/losing compression. Stock turb and intercooler are never going to push the limits of even the stock internals if everything else is happy.
Q2. I wouldn't bother just doing one. Either it's a forged build or it isn't. As to whether you would replace the pistons.... if you buy used pistons, you have no idea of their history. If you buy new pistons they're going to cost you about $500 for a set for stockies, is it worth it? I'd say probably not.
Q4. The only factory internals I'd consider an "upgrade" are V7 STI EJ207 pistons and rods, and they're >$2000 for the pistons and around $800 for a set of rods, at which point you may as well just go aftermarket.
Q5. Head gaskets, OEM. Rebuild kit in terms of bearings? YMMV. OEM are probably going to be the most reliable at stock power levels but might cost a metric assload.
Q6. Yes, it's fine. Honestly unless #racecar where you have specific oil pressure needs, dicking about with the oil pump seems to lead to more problems than it's worth.
Q7. As long as you weren't way out I'd probably nana it to the tuner, especially if you had slightly dropped compression rather than adding it. As long as you were comfortable it was driving well enough to make that trip safely. Anything turbo is kinda fundamentally variable compression anyway because the actual resultant cylinder pressure could be just about anything.
With that out of the way.... I wouldn't bother with a rebuild to factory spec. A better option, IMO, is to just keep driving it on the assumption it will blow up at some stage, and in the meantime get another block and start building that one up properly (forged etc). Then when yours finally gives up the ghost, you have the option of throwing in a bigger turbo or something and making a bunch of power.
Very inciteful. Thank you very much for your advice. I am still keen to go ahead with a rebuild, reuse all parts except perhaps find a good set of used pistons. The local machine shop/EJ specialist (Tony Flynn) said it's worth throwing the pistons as far as you can and replacing them with used ones....even if they have known history. He said he seen denotation events cause damage to pistons that still pass the crack test. I think I will used OEM gaskets and seals (which I buy from machine shop) and a set of ACL duraglide bearings.
18 hours ago, Boltonator said:Regarding Q6. These cars already have a 12mm oil pump. I think its because along with supporting the usual turbos and bearings they have 4 AVCS solenoids to feed as well.
I think your right. Local engine builder said the later EJs have a 12mm pump. He says it's a must upgrade for older engines....go to Subaru and get a OEM 12mm pump off a newer engine, they bolt right onto old EJs....they like $700 though.
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Hi all,
I'm looking at rebuilding my first ever engine. The engine is an EJ20Y from a 2007 legacy GT wagon with approx 180,000kms. The main reason for this rebuild is to replace all bearings and rings to breathe many more kms and reliability into this engine as i plan to tune it with light mods (decat, intake, fuel pump and boost solenoid).
I'm really chasing longevity and reliability and not necessarily high power thus why I want new bearings as they will probably go within the next 50,000kms, my last EJ spun its guts at 220,000.
Question time.
Q1. What is everyone's opinions on whether or not it's worth upgrading rods/pistons with just the light stage 1+ mods. I don't want to break the bank on this one, its my first build and 50% of this job is just for my own knowledge and experience! Will I get any gains from upgrading the rods/pistons while I'm still only using the stock turbo and stock tiny BP/BL intercooler?
Q2. I don't think I have the budget to upgrade both the rods and pistons so which of these two parts in a EJ20Y/X is the weakest and more in need of upgrading? What parts do you recommend? I was looking at these. https://www.possumbournemotorsport.com/k1-technologies-subaru-ej20-25-h-beam-connecting-r
Q2 continued. its worth noting that the previous owner ran this car on 91 octane for a decent amount of time and it ran like s***. I should expect potential cracked pistons and damaged ring lands. even if they appear okay would you replace them due to the high stress they have been subjected to?
Q4. What are some good factory replacement rods/pistons? should I consider some internals from a EJ207 or 257?
Q5. What rebuild kit is best? should I go to the dealership and get a OEM rebuild kit? I'm quite interested in some decent ACL race series bearings. so I could get a OEM rebuild kit and use ACL race series bearings. what are everyone's thoughts? what have you had good experiences with? what about head gaskets lol?
Q6. Is the factory oil pump sufficient? I've heard of many people upgrading to a 12mm oil pump? is this a good idea or is the factory one sufficient? will a aftermarket oil pump bother my AVCS solenoids?
Q7. its important that all of this rebuild will work with the factory tune/ecu as I have to travel 450km to my tuner. lets say i installed lower comp pistons from another Subaru engine, would i be safe to baby the vehicle 450km? (Nelson to Christchurch)
I'm preparing for my first ever build here so any opinions are much appreciated.
Thanks for your time
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Hey all.
I couple odd electrical problems have popped up on my 04 BP5 JDM legacy.
Firstly I recently I did some work on my legacy and had the battery disconnected. Ever since then the drivers door has gone floppy instead of having a heavy and mechanical clunk to it. The door doesn't open and the keyless entry has stopped worked. I believe this is the keyless entry system playing up.
At one point the door still opened from the inside but now it doesn't open from the inside nor the outside. Cannot flick the locking latch over as it feels jammed.
Perhaps once or twice out of the 10 times I go to drive my car the door will actually unlock and decide to co-operate, however the handle always remains floppy and the keyless entry has never worked since the problem first started.
All other doors function normally.
Now secondly, my interior fan has started making a loud clicking/rattly sound. The actual performance of the AC seems to be fine but it sounds like a airport starting up and its too loud to raise above the first fanspeed setting. Any ideas?
Thanks all, any ideas or opinions are appreciated
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On 4/05/2023 at 1:34 PM, boon said:
For the AT, the Subaru 5EAT is a bit of a picky a bastard and really likes the "correct" fluid, which is either Subaru-branded or the actual manufacturer of it, which is Idemitsu ATF-HP, if you can find it. Apparentlt Amsoil also do a "compatible" fluid, ymmv but for a 310k car it's probably not the end of the world.
As for changing it, yes, unless you can pressure-flush it then you leave a whole lot behind. Honestly there's no point doing a double-flush, as, best case, you'll still probably have ~20% old fluid with all the crapola floating around in it. Drain and refill and call it good enough. Also IIRC the filling part is a bit of a mongrel - via the dipstick tube?
The diffs all like Syntrax 75w90. If your Outback is a NZ-new car it will almost definitely have an LSD in the rear (probably a viscous one, although rumour abounds that the odd one got a plate diff), but it still likes the same juice.
The 5MT, Syntrax for everything. What the diffs are is a complete lolly-scramble, could be anything from open-open-open to open-viscous-viscous.
I just when into the dealership today. Dayman's Subaru in Nelson. I should the guy the Idemitsu stuff and he said they don't use it. They used to use some Motul fluid until 2014 and now they use Castrol Transmax multivehicle.
I asked the guy if I bought my outback in because I'm afraid to do the work myself what fluid will he put in. He said he will put the Transmax in.
As for manuals and diffs, Castrol Syntrax is indeed what they use and recommend. Currently they are actually using some other semisynthetic stuff coz they are struggling to get their hands on Syntrax he said.
As for the LSD's, he told me that the BP5 shall either has VDC or a LSD. Not both, if it has VDC then it won't have a LSD as the wheel speeds are electronically limited by the computer somehow.....and vice versa.
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On 4/05/2023 at 1:34 PM, boon said:
For the AT, the Subaru 5EAT is a bit of a picky a bastard and really likes the "correct" fluid, which is either Subaru-branded or the actual manufacturer of it, which is Idemitsu ATF-HP, if you can find it. Apparentlt Amsoil also do a "compatible" fluid, ymmv but for a 310k car it's probably not the end of the world.
As for changing it, yes, unless you can pressure-flush it then you leave a whole lot behind. Honestly there's no point doing a double-flush, as, best case, you'll still probably have ~20% old fluid with all the crapola floating around in it. Drain and refill and call it good enough. Also IIRC the filling part is a bit of a mongrel - via the dipstick tube?
The diffs all like Syntrax 75w90. If your Outback is a NZ-new car it will almost definitely have an LSD in the rear (probably a viscous one, although rumour abounds that the odd one got a plate diff), but it still likes the same juice.
The 5MT, Syntrax for everything. What the diffs are is a complete lolly-scramble, could be anything from open-open-open to open-viscous-viscous.
Righto, that's for the info. I'll pick up some Syntrax from super cheap and some HP from the dealership? It's a good point you raise about flushing it, I will always leave a little bit in there and it does have 310,000kms after all. I will probably find that the LSD is worn out to being non existent anyway.
Thanks for your help!
4 hours ago, Boltonator said:I use Penrite Trans Gear 75w-90 for my BP5. I can't say it is awesome but it is adequate. There's a bit of a period between being cold and fully hot where 3rd gear has to be engaged gently at low rpm or it doesn't feel quite right. I have it in the diff too.
Maybe you give this Syntrax a go and see if it helps? Have you already? I have received multiple compliments on how smooth my box is from the few ppl who I have trusted to drive it (mainly the mechanic and alignment guy🤣). If I noticed a change in the feel of my shifts using this Syntrax stuff I'll be sure to let you know!
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Hey all.
I own two BP5's and am after advice for the correct trans/gearbox and diff fluids
The 5EAT is the first auto I've ever owned and they are a bit more finicky to service than a manual.
The first BP5 I want to talk about is my 04 EZ30 Outback with the 5EAT. this vehicle has 310,000 kms on it and I am planning to drive it down to Queenstown (I live in Nelson, 1500~kms round trip) so i wanna give it a good service to give it the best odds of making it.
My questions for the outback -
1. I hear people saying that it is best to use Subaru ATF from the dealership for the 5EAT? what do you think?
2. Is it okay to just do a simple drain and refill? i hear it only replaces half of the fluids or should i buy two lots of oil and do a full flush?
3. Front and rear diffs. what oil do you guys recommend? just some good DEX III Penrite or something?
4. Does anyone know if this vehicle has a open or LSD in the rear? i would suspect just open?
My other vehicle is a 04 BP5 EJ20Y B. Spec legacy 5Spd (Yes 5 spd bspec, it was the first year that they made them).
Questions about the EJ20Y 5spd manual -
1. What gear oil would you recommend for the 5spd? 75w90 Penrite?
2. Does the manual gearbox share its oil with the front diff? I thought so, please correct me if I'm wrong.
3. What Oils for the rear diff (and front diff if its separate to the box)?
4. Lastly I'm just curious about the type of diff again. I believe a LSD in the back with a center diff?
thanks all, all opinions appreciated, cheers
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On 12/10/2022 at 7:05 PM, Boltonator said:
Based on the other jobs you have done in the past there shouldn't be a steep learning curve for timing belt replacement. The tools that will assist you in your job are the Camshaft locking tool for the LH Cam Sprockets, a 2 foot breaker bar and a Torque Wrench as the idlers need to be torqued to specific settings. The camshaft locking tool is to lock your cam sprockets into position before you start removing the belt and pulleys and helps you put the belt on correctly after everything is back together. Do read up on other people's experiences and watch some Youtube tutorials because there are a few pitfalls that can be traps.
I did this job in the summer and haven't had any issues so far. If you had an Auto you would also need the wrench that holds the Harmonic Balancer Pulley still so that you can bust off the 22mm Nut. But with the Manual you can just set it to 5th Gear with the handbrake on and that should lock the engine up enough to undo that nut. I also got a proper 10mm allen bolt tool and loosened the Camshaft sprocket bolts because I want to be able to loosen them in the future.
My procedure was
- Remove the Battery and the Air box (access more than anything, was also doing Sparkplugs at the same time)
- Remove the Coolant, Hoses and the Radiator (radiator can be kept in but it makes life difficult). The fans can stay attached to the Radiator assembly, just remove the two connectors on each side at the bottom.
- Remove the Accessory drive pulleys and the A/C Tensioner
- Remove the bolts that hold on the plastic cover for the timing components
- Lock the car into 5th with the Handbrake on and bust the nut off the Harmonic Balancer. Put that nut back onto the Crank timing sprocket and rotate the engine over until all of the marks line up.
- Optional: Slightly loosen and retorque the Allen bolts (to roughly 75nm but its really something like 37nm plus 45°) if you're not replacing camseals because it should make replacement easier down the road. If you don't have impact rated sockets you will bend the sockets, these bolts are made insanely tight over time by the AVCS system.
- Loosen all of the guides around the Crank pulley
- Remove the front covers of the AVCS pulleys. Put your Camlock tool on the right two pulleys. Remove all of the pulleys, the tensioner and the waterpump.
- Reinstall in reverse. You need to align the marks on the new timing belt with the sprockets. The 'Key' mark on the belt is a dotted line that goes onto the top of the Crank pulley. Use a bit of oil fliter box folded in half to set the distance for the timing belt guides over the Crank, RH bottom and LH sprockets. It should slide in with just a little bit of friction. It takes time because when you turn those bolts often it pushes the guides in a certain direction.
One big thing that catches people out is that once you have the pin pulled on the tensioner often the LH pulleys won't perfectly line up. As the belt settles in these will line up so its nothing to lose sleep over. Turn over the engine a few times to check that the belt is keeping good alignment. Removing the sparkplugs before doing this job makes it easier to line things up and turn over the engine. Dont remove the belt until you have everything aligned and that camlock tool on.
Use genuine Subaru components, if you can find the part numbers from the OEM suppliers then those are good substitutes but I just threw $650 at the Subaru dealership and came out with a box of everything i needed.
Sorry for the late reply. Thank you very much for your time!
Just to confirm I am understanding a couple things correctly
I must align the center crank FIRST and then put the camlocking took on. I must not remove the tool until the new belt is on and tensioned? What if the two cams are slightly out of time due the the age of the belt and need to be realigned. How can I adjust the timing of the two camshafts if they are locked together?
Both of the intake (upper) camshafts are AVCS and not just the right hand one?
When you mention the right hand side, you mean looking into the engine bay correct? Not in relation to the direction of the vehicle and the engine.
Quite a few kits I have seen come with seals. Are these seals for behind the camshaft sprockets? These are optional and not necessary for just a belt replacement right?
Thanks heaps again, any input is muchly appreciated 👍
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Hey all.
I just got a 04 B spec legacy gt with 220,000kms on it, japanese Import. According to previous owner it should have atleast 5,000kms left until belt is due for replacement. However I don't have any proof of this and would like to get it out the way.
Just wondering what the difficulty level of this job is, timing belt, water pump and thermostat. Realistically I have minimal mechanical experience (mostly just a "YouTube warrior"), most I have done is a clutch replacement, rear suspension strut replacement, few brake pads and plugs and other small things. Never done anything requiring precision such
as a timing belt.
I am interested in doing this job myself, videos around the internet make it look pretty easy, but just after realistic advice.
2004 JDM imported Legacy GT B spec (supposed to be a b spec, idk how to confirm?) Manual wagon..... I believe this engine is the EJ20Y. The thing that scares me the most is what I believe is the left hand intake camshaft which is under tension when you remove the belt? Just after more information about this, hear stories of people undoing the belt and this tensioned cam causing major damage....just wanting more information about this? What to look out for?
Cheers!
Can anyone recommend me a decent quality timing kit?
New here, sorry if I landed myself in the wrong forum!
Also, off different topic, vehicle has a stumble/stutter at idle. I wouldn't call it a rough idle. It's a "stumble" which can sometimes be quite violent shaking the car. Every 5-10 seconds it shudders, occasionally much worse than usual. Have replaced plugs and cleaned MAF sensor.
Any opinions muchly appreciated thanks 🙂.
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Debris fell into oil galley!
in General Vehicle Discussion
Posted
Hi all,
So today I removed the oil galley bung above cylinder number 3 to install a temperature sensor into it. It took a huge amount of torque to crack the bung free (it had Loctite of some sort and it was red coloured!)....after removing the bung all the material from the thread sealant which had hardened and just crumbled fell right into the galley to make a home inside my EJ20Y.
I haven't even cranked the engine over at all yet.
How concerned should I be?
Does anyone know where this galley leads to? Does it feed the camshafts and the rest of the top end?
Thanks