BG5 - won't start

[Munkvy]

So, my 98 BG5 decided it doesn't love me once again.

Was driving along and it started cutting out at anything over about 1/4 throttle, but would rev fine when not under load. Figured it was the AFM and limped it to where I was going. It stalled a couple of times and was really struggling to idle when I stopped.

Once help arrived to give me a ride to find a new AFM we found it idled the same without the AFM plugged in and it then after a while refused to start at all.

I eventually found a new AFM and installed that, but car still refuses to start. Its not even trying to catch, just turning over and no attempt to be nice at all.

I figured either I had a lot of fuel sitting in the cylinders or a blocked fuel filter, so pulled the plugs and they all looked normal. Also replaced fuel filter and there was plenty of fuel in both lines.

When turning the ignition on the fuel pump primes for about 2-3 seconds, I can't remember if this is normal? I know the Walbro in my rally car primes for a lot longer than that, but its also a lot easier to hear. BG5 has a stock fuel pump of unknown condition I should add.

I checked CEL and only 23 - AFM. So disconnected battery and pumped brakes while doing the plugs and no code now, instead just a slow continuous flashing when just the black connectors are connected.

When connecting the black and the green connectors to reset the codes, I was a bit unsure if it should sound as it does, so below is a video of the sound:

Thoughts on what I have broken now? Car is stock as a rock and now has a known good AFM too.

Thanks

Vivian

[Drunkenmonkey]

that first noise is the BCS in the front left guard ticking in test mode and that other one will be something in the BBOD.

pull plugs out and test on mani your getting spark?

no grounds come loose?

single turbo it

[Guest]

if fuel is flowing thru system, and pressurising fuel rails

Then look at cam/crank sensor and coolant sensor

These are the ONLY sensors used to initally start the engine

AFM is ignored due to low air speed, o2 is ignored as is TPS

But your diag/ initail fault sounds more like a fuel issue?

[Munkvy]

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

I should have thought to check for spark. Will do that asap.

Fuel - well there was fuel in both lines going to the filter, but it didn't spurt out or anything like it was under pressure when I disconnected the lines (I had removed the fuel cap too). So I will see if I have a spare somewhere I can try. I assume its no different changing pumps in a BG5 to a BC5?

Sensors - any idea if they use the same sensors as a BC5? As I have a whole car worth of spares... Funnily enough the rallycar is having similar starting issues too.

Is there any chance its the ignitor unit? Do they die very often? I guess I will find that out if it has no spark though.

[Guest]

ingnitor are fairly robust and have only replaced 1 ever

pump change is teh same, and sensors are the same

Check for fuel flow at filter - extend hose to a catch can/bowl/bucket and turn ign on (dont try and start) - you should get approx 50-100ml fuel

[spark_38]

Borrow the walbro from the rally car to diagnose your fuel pump issues - easy to do. Generally stock fuel pumps die at around 160,000km....from what I've seen.

[Munkvy]

Ichi - you are full of good ideas, thanks

Jase - Walbro has a pickup thingy on it which is a right pain to get to sit right in the tank, so I will only remove it as an absolute last resort. Pretty sure I have another Legacy pump somewhere that we held onto as a spare for the rally car. But I will try Ichi's suggestion to test it first.

[spark_38]

I'm pretty sure the WRX pumps are the same too - I put one in the legacy wagon, the older fat type with the screw terminals. There is prob my old one sitting in Brent's garage somewhere. I only replaced due to unknown k's...

[Guest]

PM'd you with my # if ya need

[Guest]

now dont get offended but is the battery fully charged? i have had similar issues both myself and with a mates car, checked the voltage at the batt with a multi meter and it read 11 - 12 then dropped to 6 when cranking.

quick jump start and all was go!

[Munkvy]

Thats a very valid question penguin - I did some googling and saw that come up as the issue a number of times for people with factory Subaru batteries.

However, sadly in this case its not the cure My battery is only a few months old and in good condition and we also tried starting the car with a jump start too with no success.

[spark_38]

Could it be the immobilizers in the alarm? If it happens to be a Meridian I wouldn't be surprised if it crapped out - seems to be a common trend.

[Munkvy]

It is a Meridian, but seems strange the symptoms I got first - ie car running badly under load and idle getting worse and worse. Which wouldn't fit with an alarm issue. However if the alarm then chose to break after that, then yes I guess its possible?

[spark_38]

Read the Obsessive blogs.... Meridian are terrible alarms. Most are known to bypass the immobilizer circuits to get the car runnning - but I don't suggest you leave it for too long like that. From what I've experienced they seem to have a 95% failure rate.

I, alone have pulled out three dead ones from Subaru vehicles. I know of many others in Welli too that have experienced failed alarms.

Doing a Uniden VS-2600XR soon-ish for a Legacy - should be interesting...

[Munkvy]

 Ichi Ban said:

Check for fuel flow at filter - extend hose to a catch can/bowl/bucket and turn ign on (dont try and start) - you should get approx 50-100ml fuel

Just did this and got no fuel at all! So clearly pump is at fault. Anyone got a pump I can borrow till payday? Will buy a new Walbro then.

Vivian

[Guest]

Hook that fuel line back on and check the following

check power to pump - must have 12v at crank if yes then pump issue if not then power issue which is prob a relay fault

Also check the multi plug under the R/H side of the lower rear seat squab - these plugs can melt and fail when the pump starts to draw too much current

[Munkvy]

And it was the fuel pump! All happy and running again, which means no more driving a gold Toymota Echo!

Thanks everyone very muchly for your help.

Vivian

[Hotspurz]

 Munkvy said:

no more driving a gold Toymota Echo

So the "Custard Square" is preferred to the "Cream Puff" ;D

[Munkvy]

Ahh yeah just a bit!

However, GTB is now fine. But the RS is still dead, so today we checked the fuel pump is sending fuel, the coils are all sparking and the battery is fine. Now need to swap out the sensors to make sure they aren't the issue and I guess that then just leaves us with compression to check? Anything else that would cause it not to start?