Timing issue on a 2nd gen BG

[Guest]

1993 legacy GT wagon quad cam TT 2.0l BG series

First time legacy owner, bought the car after having it checked out by AA where everything was deemed to be in good order, and four days later the water pump bearings disintegrated which threw the timing belt out enough to cut through timing belt covers, though the belt didn't dismount.

Had it towed to a nearby (and recommended) mechanic who fitted a new pump, timing belt, guide pulleys, tensioner etc. After three days of trying to get the car to go, he hands the keys back to me saying "you must have overheated it, the compression is down on two cylinders and this is the reason it isn't starting"

Car was running fine when the water pump broke, and I stopped the car long before any overheating might have occurred, so I called bulldust on that explanation.

Symptoms are:

"loping" when trying to start, not an even cycle. (like instead of whir whir whir whir it is whir uhh whir uhh) << apologies for the bad sound effects

Compression is down on 2 cylinders.

no error codes.

There is plenty of spark which indicates to me that crank and cam sensors are ok.

Timing belt is new but has no direction or pulley guide marks on it (not oem).

So, had the car towed back to mine and after I had a look around the net based on symptoms, I've came to the conclusion that the timing must be out. Had a squizzy, and the timing (to me) does look like it's out. Not by a little, but by a lot.

I've turned the crank dozens of times by hand and at no stage do the notches on the 4 cams line up with anything.

As I understand it, the timing marks should be:

TDC

This is what it was like when it came back from the mechanics (crank at TDC)

And if I rotate the crank so the RH inlet cam is showing single notch at 12 o'clock and double notch at 6 o'clock, I get:

This indicates to me that the two exhaust cams are 180' out and possibly the cause of the compression loss? Though whats up with the crank position is confusing me.

So, my question is: What do I need to do to get everything back in order?

I am assuming I put crank at TDC, take the timing belt off and rotate the cams (clockwise?) til the notches line up as per the first image?

Are there gotchas I need to be aware of?

thanks for taking the time to look

[DRFVDR]

You have pretty much nailed it, remove belt, reset timing install belt with all new idlers and tensioners(unless you can guarantee the "mechanic" actually replaced them).

The only thing that you may find is that even those these engines are non interference they can still bend valves by having the timing out and the exhaust and intake valves touch ..

[Guest]

Thanks for your feedback. yes work definitely done by a well respected garage in my area, i sourced and supplied the parts, and made sure i got the old parts back (though thats no guarantee ). I guess I'll find out soon enough if the valves are damaged or not.

[neodowd]

Get the garage to fix there stuff up.

[WRXONP]

beware when u rotate them that they dont hit the piston - if u turn very slowly with no force behind it you will feel it touch - then you need to back the cam back and rotate crank so the piston is off TDC - then rotate cams to align the marks- then put crank back on tdc - hopefully he hasnt put the belt on wrong - cranked it - herd the vavles snap - than blamed u for overheating it

[Guest]

 WRXONP said:

beware when u rotate them that they dont hit the piston - if u turn very slowly with no force behind it you will feel it touch - then you need to back the cam back and rotate crank so the piston is off TDC - then rotate cams to align the marks- then put crank back on tdc - hopefully he hasnt put the belt on wrong - cranked it - herd the vavles snap - than blamed u for overheating it

gotcha. i'm not hearing any rattly bits when winding over by hand so hopefully the valves are still ok. Problem is i've no garage or carport so have to wait for a fine spell here in Welly. think thats about thursday this week

[Guest]

 neodowd said:

Get the garage to fix there stuff up.

I probably should have backed up the bus when I got the car there and the lead mechanic rolls his eyes and mutters profanities about subarus. Thanks for your suggestion, and now I have confirmation the timing is out, I'll give them a bell to see what they say about it.

[WRXONP]

well for him to put the cambelt on with the cams well out of time - its his fault not yours - if he has fucked the valves or anything else its all on him to repair it - your car didnt skip teeth on the cambelt before it went in did it?

[DRFVDR]

 stuconz']

[quote name='neodowd said:

Get the garage to fix there stuff up.

/quote]

I probably should have backed up the bus when I got the car there and the lead mechanic rolls his eyes and mutters profanities about subarus. Thanks for your suggestion, and now I have confirmation the timing is out, I'll give them a bell to see what they say about it.

Not a real Mechanic in my opinion every make of car has its lovers and haters, if you want to be a mechanic in todays world you have to learn to deal with the idiosyncrasies of all makes and models, I know I would rather change a cambelt in a subaru( well actually a diesel hiace/hilux after the "L"series engines are the easiest) over say pretty much any FWD car,

[Jimbob]

if your doing cambelt/waterpump as long as ya can lock cam sprockets ats all good, well thats what i find missing on the subie ones i have seen, no keyways to lock cams!

most likely a proper tool for the job tho

[Guest]

Forget my lovely diagrams I have been using the mark on the pulley as my TDC reference, not the actual tabs on the crank.

So, the RH inlet was still out by 180 deg. I've taken the belt off and lined up the cams...Now my mission is to try and get the belt back on...thanks everyone for helping me out with this. I'll post back when and if I get the car going this weekend...