Help first time buyer - 2005 Legacy

[Guest]

Hi guys, this is my first post on this forum so please excuse me if this is the wrong place for this type of question.

I am very interested in getting a 2005 legacy, station wagon model. Looking at this model here:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/subaru/legacy/auction-474721388.htm

I have had Toyota Levins all my life and this will be my first Subaru, as you can tell I know next to nothing about what I should expect from this car.

To give you a little background about why I chose this car, I got 2 border collies that likes to get out a lot, I plan to use the car boot space as its nice and roomy, they often had to stay in car for couple hours when we\'re out. Me and my wife also hold stall in a handcraft market so extra space comes handy during weekends. I also really liked the fact its a 4WD, boxer engine etc. and I know I want a manual transmission. I am a mature driver, never pulls or breaks hard unless necessary.

So here are my questions:

What sort of price range should I expect for this model?

Is this a dodgy price from turners?

http://www.turners.co.nz/Vehicles/Pages/Car.aspx?RefId=1074898

Is this a good car to hold on to for say 5 year or more? Do I need to look for anything in particular when inspecting the car?

I read from somewhere that oxygen sensor fails often on this model, is this the case? Anything else I need to be aware of?

If parts needed to be replace, is it relatively easy(and cost effective) to find a replacement? One of the reason I stayed with Toyota for so long is because parts are too easy to find.

Should I go for the turbo model, the price seems to be very similar compared to a non-turbo model?

I know the one before this version of legacy is called B4, is there a model name for this particular legacy I am after?

Lastly, feel free to throw in knowledges related to this car as I need to be educated to make informed decisions.

I know thats shxx load of questions but it also cost an arm and a leg for me so I needed all the help I can get before I commit to my first Subaru

[paulngui]

I\'ve got one and can vouch for it, it\'s a very nice car! And similarly, it\'s my first Subaru (and second car ever). You may also want to consider the 3.0R; never driven one but lots of people praise the H6 engine. Price wise, I\'d say that\'s about what you\'d expect to pay for the GT with that mileage; +/- $1k. Not too sure what are the things to look out for with this model, but with any car it\'s good to get it checked over by a mechanic, and if you look after it there\'s no reason for things to go wrong, within reason.

B4 simply refers to the sedan model, the sedan model of this generation is also sometimes called B4 although the official name is also GT like the wagon. Parts are easy to get through places like Wingers, but it\'ll often be much cheaper to source genuine parts elsewhere like ebay. Buying through Subaru, Toyota etc always costs an arm and a leg!

[DacerX]

I have a 3.0r and it\'s the sedan so the b4 great car but being the sedan it\'s annoying for space at times, the wagon is always going to be the best choice overall and they look better. If I had to do it again id still get the 3.0r just for the reliable and cost on insurance being na, but again in a wagon not a sedan. Sedans look cool but with rear seats that won\'t fold down go wagon everytime. And also auto 5sp is really nice to drive

[Guest]

Thanks for the input and the recommendation, with the 3.0r suggestion, I had another closer look at the engine cylinder cap. and so far noticed 2000cc, 2500cc and the 3000cc (3.0R), can anyone shed a light on the engine difference between different model and how to spot the difference when inspecting the car?

Should I avoid 2000cc since it seems to be the lowest spec engine wise?

I know that for Levin for example, they have the XZ/BZG/BZR and only the BZG and BZR has the 4age 20v blacktop engine which is far more durable and desirable comparing to the crappy 4afe 16v engine on XZ.

[DacerX]

gt and gtb - 2l turbo

3.0r and 3.0r B-spec - 3l NA

base models - 2l or 2.5 na

It depends on what you want in a car,

[paulngui]

To add to that, facelift turbo models can be 2.0 or 2.5. Interestingly the 2.5 has less peak power than the 2.0, albeit only slightly. Probably something to do with the engine needing to meet certain emissions requirements.

[mondo]

One problem with the manual is they usually need a new clutch anywhere between 100,000 to 150,000k (depends how it\'s been driven), AND usually a new flywheel, as the flywheel used on 04-06 models is a dual mass type(expensive!)

[paulngui]

 mondo said:

One problem with the manual is they usually need a new clutch anywhere between 100,000 to 150,000k (depends how it\'s been driven), AND usually a new flywheel, as the flywheel used on 04-06 models is a dual mass type(expensive!)

Is that only 04-06 or for the whole generation? Pre and post face lift?

[mondo]

 paulngui']

[quote name='mondo said:

One problem with the manual is they usually need a new clutch anywhere between 100,000 to 150,000k (depends how it\'s been driven), AND usually a new flywheel, as the flywheel used on 04-06 models is a dual mass type(expensive!)

/quote]

Is that only 04-06 or for the whole generation? Pre and post face lift?

4th gen, I\'m sure it was only 04-06, 07 on has single mass

[DRFVDR]

here is my 2c worth ( well 20c as you dont get 2cs any more )

I would get the 3 litre engine, here is why The Legacy is a biggish car, it is also AWD both of these take a wee bit more HP to push along.

The 2 litre does it well enough BUT the fuel usage would be higher as the engine has to work harder in the same situations

The 2.5 l would be better that the 2.0 BUT even the later 2.5s still have issues with headgaskets.

also the 4 cylinders still run cambelts which need to be changed every 100000 km ( or so) which can cost upwards of $1000 to do right.

The 3l 6 cylinder runs a cam chain so may never have to be changed ( they do have a service interval but alot of cars never make it to that sorta km).

the only issue i can see with you getting a H6 is that the first gen( to about 2004 i think) could only be got with an Auto gearbox ( in my mind Autos are the way to go and I am a professional driver and have been one for 25 years and I love driving an auto they are WAAYYY safer as it is one less thing for the driver to have to worry about)....

I just went through a very similar issue when purchasing a new vehicle for the Missus, We wanted 7-8 seats and AWD and not a real van also had to be about $10k and preferably Toyota or Subaru( it is what I work on every day) Subaru were out of the question as they have no 7 seaters suitable, so I looked at Toyota Estimas, post 2000 as the earlier ones were deadly in accidents, next was engine did we go with the 2.4 4 cylinder or the 3l V6 ( no diesel variant avaiable in NZ) after alot of googling figured out that the 6 cylinder was more economical in the long term and had enough grunt to get it preforming while passing and such...

/2c

[mondo]

I have to disagree with you borg on the fact that the 2.0 will use more fuel than the 3.0.My 04 2.0 turbo is very good on fuel, on long runs at legal speeds I get 15km/l.Sure they use a bit when you you put your foot down but ANY engine will(the 2.0 turbo is so nice to just floor it ,I think thats why it gets a bad rap for being hungry!).As for having an auto over a manual ??, I hope you mean an auto is safer for people who cant drive!.The only reason I would choose the 3.0/6 over the 2.0 turbo/4, would be if I was to be towing a lot.

[DRFVDR]

 mondo said:

I have to disagree with you borg on the fact that the 2.0 will use more fuel than the 3.0.My 04 2.0 turbo is very good on fuel, on long runs at legal speeds I get 15km/l.Sure they use a bit when you you put your foot down but ANY engine will(the 2.0 turbo is so nice to just floor it ,I think thats why it gets a bad rap for being hungry!).As for having an auto over a manual ??, I hope you mean an auto is safer for people who cant drive!.The only reason I would choose the 3.0/6 over the 2.0 turbo/4, would be if I was to be towing a lot.

Um no I was talking NA 2 litre VS NA 2.5 VS NA 3.0

and also an auto is safer for ANYONE to drive as you can spend more time concentrating on actually driving the vehicle and not worrying about which gear you are in, I have been driving as a professional driver for over 25 years, I drive in conditions that would make most people break down and cry and i KNOW that it is safer for me to drive an auto over a manual and I believe that I am a very very good driver.

[DacerX]

 We are borg']

[quote name='mondo said:

I have to disagree with you borg on the fact that the 2.0 will use more fuel than the 3.0.My 04 2.0 turbo is very good on fuel, on long runs at legal speeds I get 15km/l.Sure they use a bit when you you put your foot down but ANY engine will(the 2.0 turbo is so nice to just floor it ,I think thats why it gets a bad rap for being hungry!).As for having an auto over a manual ??, I hope you mean an auto is safer for people who cant drive!.The only reason I would choose the 3.0/6 over the 2.0 turbo/4, would be if I was to be towing a lot.

/quote]

Um no I was talking NA 2 litre VS NA 2.5 VS NA 3.0

and also an auto is safer for ANYONE to drive as you can spend more time concentrating on actually driving the vehicle and not worrying about which gear you are in, I have been driving as a professional driver for over 25 years, I drive in conditions that would make most people break down and cry and i KNOW that it is safer for me to drive an auto over a manual and I believe that I am a very very good driver.

+1 completely agree, I love driving a manual and have for sometime, but auto makes

Me concentrate on the road more.

[mondo]

 We are borg']

[quote name='mondo said:

I have to disagree with you borg on the fact that the 2.0 will use more fuel than the 3.0.My 04 2.0 turbo is very good on fuel, on long runs at legal speeds I get 15km/l.Sure they use a bit when you you put your foot down but ANY engine will(the 2.0 turbo is so nice to just floor it ,I think thats why it gets a bad rap for being hungry!).As for having an auto over a manual ??, I hope you mean an auto is safer for people who cant drive!.The only reason I would choose the 3.0/6 over the 2.0 turbo/4, would be if I was to be towing a lot.

/quote]

Um no I was talking NA 2 litre VS NA 2.5 VS NA 3.0

and also an auto is safer for ANYONE to drive as you can spend more time concentrating on actually driving the vehicle and not worrying about which gear you are in, I have been driving as a professional driver for over 25 years, I drive in conditions that would make most people break down and cry and i KNOW that it is safer for me to drive an auto over a manual and I believe that I am a very very good driver.

Yep fair enough, but the car in question in the first post is a turbo 2.0.I cant really see what the problem is with people having to concentrate when driving a manual, I know what gear im in at any time and can change gear without having to concentrate/think about it.A car it safer for ANYONE if they are a confident driver, be it an auto or manual.I could also call myself a professional driver, but for the last 10 yrs have gone back to racing motorcycles.The only safe road to drive on is one free from drunk/druged/incompetent/speeding drivers, which is impossible with the caliber of drivers in this country.

[Guest]

Thank you guys for the useful information, I am slowly building up knowledge from your inputs so please keep them coming! The comparison between 2.0/2.5/3.0 is really useful because I am actually leaning towards N/A model, just means there is one thing less that will go wrong with the car, I just need enough pull to get out of situations.

Btw I have just had my first test drive on a N/A 2.5 Legacy, this one here:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=526564679

Here\'s a photo of the engine plate, can someone de-code for me?

I have to say it is a very nice car to drive, handling and performance wise, really impressed, the car is NZ new according to the owner which is another interesting fact I learned (japan/nz model). The only thing that worries me is that the oxygen sensor needs to be replace, the engine light comes on because of that and the cruise light flashes. Also there is some kind of whistling sound when car was warming up which according to the owner has never happened before, after the car has been driven around the sound is gone. Owner did say he will take it in tomorrow to have it checked out so hopefully he does.

In all I am tempted to place a bid at some point, should I worry about anything from my experience?

How much does this car worth to you guys based on the information given?

[Guest]

Btw I agree with the auto car being safer compare to manual cars from the focusing point of view, but I have to say manual car is way more fun to drive

[paulngui]

Doesn\'t look too bad, probably wouldn\'t pay more than $11-12k for it though. What\'s the lever to the left of the handbrake?

I think if you are open to all types though that you should have a try of the turbo and 6cyl versions too, so you can work out which you really like. As well as considering all the other factors like cost to run, maintain etc.

[Guest]

I had the same question about the lever, the owner said it was to do with changing the ratio of the gear and that he never really used it and never needed it. I am pretty much open to all types as long as its manual, the thing is that manual gearbox is hard to come by on these models, and I am not so keen to get one over 140k on the clock.

My budget is around 11K so hopefully it will be close to that.

[DRFVDR]

Oh look a Dual range gearbox subaru still make them it has basically hi and lo ratio, not a true low ratio( like say in a 4wd) but about 1/2 a gear lower, I have had a impreza with it and my current RX has it, not really that useful really , i use Low around town ( better acceleration) and flick it into high on the open road, It can be shifted on the fly so if you were really good at it you can has 10 forward gears and 2 reverse means a whole heap of shifting though