Pinging in BE5C (RSK B4)

[suubyduuby]

Was just looking over the previous thread on Rev D BE5 pinking.

Great info about the timing issue in the BE5 Rev D's.

Another member of my family has a 2001 RSK B4 (BE5C Tiptronic) and it pings like crazy when given a bit of stick. Always run on 98 as well. Its her daily driver and rarely gets the pedal to the metal, so it never does it while she's driving. But whenever I hop in and put my foot down, can hear it pinging quite noticeabley.

The closest sound I can describe it as is a very soft 'rattling' sound - kind of muted...but the speed increases and decreases with engine RPM (proportional). I have noticed as well (compared to my 99 BH5), it feels ultra-responsive even off boost. Would seem to incidicate the timing is more advanced - as throttle response is VERY sharp and edgy.

Cambelt jumped a tooth? (Or advanced when installed in Japan?)

Cam-angle sensor?

A/F ratio?

Oh yeah, I've also noticed that her BE5C runs quite a bit hotter than my BH5's engine.

The crazy thing is - she took it into SubLab for servicing and they picked up the pinging issue. But when asked how to resolve it - they didn't know...

The car recently had its rocker cover seals done as well - only at 70,000kms. Could the extra timing be putting more pressure on them causing them to give up earlier? My BH5 over 100k and still no oil leaks....

[suubyduuby]

Just further...Suppose you would call it 'mid-range' pinging more than anything else.

Not as noticeable post 4,000 RPM but noticeable from about 2,500 - 4,000 RPM.

Another suggestion was possibly primary turbo heatshield rattling? Don't see how though?!?

[Guest]

That sort of mid range pinging is pretty common as noted in the other thread.

I've also told Sublab about it and they didn't have any suggestions apart from always running 98 octane fuel.

I've also had a chat to Dave at Torque Performance and he says it happens in all of them and that the only foolproof way is to reprogram the ECU which at $2k is quite expensive!

Which finally leaves us with Ichi ban's information re retarding the base timing using the Subaru scan tool. I haven't had the car in for another service yet so I haven't spoken to Sublab about doing that and even if they can, I'm not sure retarding the ignition the full 5 degrees is strictly necessary/desirable.

Then again, with the way the ECU restricts boost as soon as knock is detected, maybe the car would be quicker with the full 5 degree correction anyway!

[RSB]

As for the rocker cover gaskets, My BD5C ones were weeping when i bought it at 93k.

[EJ20T]

so C's also have a issue too? i have a BH5A and it had no pinking at all and it only ever gets 95. but its change over flat spot is much more noticeable than my bros D, altho mine has more top end power. i guess you just live with it as long as its not to violenf

[suubyduuby]

 EJ20T said:

so C's also have a issue too? i have a BH5A and it had no pinking at all and it only ever gets 95. but its change over flat spot is much more noticeable than my bros D, altho mine has more top end power. i guess you just live with it as long as its not to violenf

Same for me - my BH5A no worries.

Always run on 98 and no worries ever with pinking...But yeah, the VOD is worst on mine than on the RSK. I think post 2001(ish) Subaru fiddled with compression ratios/turbos and they run a different ECU as well (only later models are tunable with ECUtek etc)

[suubyduuby]

 SpotMe said:

I'm not sure retarding the ignition the full 5 degrees is strictly necessary/desirable.

Then again, with the way the ECU restricts boost as soon as knock is detected, maybe the car would be quicker with the full 5 degree correction anyway!

Hmm yeah true words.

If she does get it done, will post back with the results.

How do you find your '01 BH5 wagon is with the VOD?

[Guest]

Ah yeah, I think Subaru upped the compression ratio from 9.5:1 to 10.5:1 between the B to C revision.

So that wouldn't help.

VOD in the D revision is a funny thing. I find that at partial throttle opening, it is not noticable at all. At WOT, you feel a brief boost drop (not huge) and then it's all go

[Swindog]

I noticed my partners BH5 leggy doin some pinking on Teretonga. I think this may be partly due to an old fuel filter. I know it has a dirty afm which could certainly contribute. Yet to change anything on it yet.

Will see. But if its pinking on 98 id be thinking timing. Could always put a avcr in it and up the fuel by a couple percent.

[GravelBen]

 SpotMe said:

Ah yeah, I think Subaru upped the compression ratio from 9.5:1 to 10.5:1 between the B to C revision.

So that wouldn't help.

VOD in the D revision is a funny thing. I find that at partial throttle opening, it is not noticable at all. At WOT, you feel a brief boost drop (not huge) and then it's all go

IIRC they upped from 8.5:1 to 9:1 from C to D - certainly not as high as 10.5. also different turbos (VF33/32), denso ECU and assorted other bits and pieces were D rev changes too.

I find VOD the other way in my '02 GTB E-tune. Full throttle I don't think you'd even notice it unless you knew about it already, but on part throttle a badly timed gear change can still drop you into a bit of a flat spot. Its really a non-issue overall though.

[EJ20T]

Yeah i guess they got more aggressive with timing as the models progressed, any one out there with a C with lite mid range pinking? the vod in some situations in my A is huge and really takes time to build boost. the brothers D is almost like a hard tuned honda coming onto vtec

[suubyduuby]

 EJ20T said:

Yeah i guess they got more aggressive with timing as the models progressed, any one out there with a C with lite mid range pinking? the vod in some situations in my A is huge and really takes time to build boost. the brothers D is almost like a hard tuned honda coming onto vtec

Yeah - so your (I'm assuming BH5) C pinks in the mid-range? What does it sound like? How would you describe - just curious to see if its the same thing she's experiencing in her BE5C.

Looked at the model plate and its an EJ206DXCBE, while the model is BE5C48T.

[Guest]

The 3rd gen legacys have very sensitive air mass meters and don't like aftermarket filters, once they get dirty from the old or oiled filters the engines pink like crazy, try cleaning the air mass meter finger with crc air mass cleaner or get a new one, only about $220+gst from winger. If they keep pinking your big end bearings will need replacing.

[Guest]

+1

[Guest]

 Ichi Ban said:

+1

Do you mean + 1 to the dirty MAF?

If so, maybe I should try cleaning mine somehow. What is the best method?

I've noticed mine is pinking a lot more over the last couple of weeks and I had a thought that maybe the winter fuel additives were making it even worse

[Guest]

afm's are a cause for pinking

Current air temps are making pinking worse due to denser air

Go to dealer and have ign timing retarded by 5deg

This will all but fix your problem

[suubyduuby]

 Ichi Ban said:

afm's are a cause for pinking

Current air temps are making pinking worse due to denser air

Go to dealer and have ign timing retarded by 5deg

This will all but fix your problem

Can you recommend a particular Suuby dealer in Auckland to do it?

Winger Greenlane any good?

[Guest]

Dont know who's there at the moment

They will need acess code 0E91 in special fuction set up on monitor

[Bazza-NZ]

can someone please explain what pinging sounds like? after reading this I'm curious and googled it but i failed to get any details about sound and what not....

[Swindog]

 Bazza-NZ said:

can someone please explain what pinging sounds like? after reading this I'm curious and googled it but i failed to get any details about sound and what not....

Just what it reads like mate except as fast as the revs go. Say pinking ten times as fast as you can and thats what it sounds like expect with a metallic sound. Not nice. I had to stop my missus half way up Teretonga straight cos the leggy was doin it so bad.

[Bazza-NZ]

 Swindog']

[quote name='Bazza-NZ said:

can someone please explain what pinging sounds like? after reading this I'm curious and googled it but i failed to get any details about sound and what not....

/quote]

Just what it reads like mate except as fast as the revs go. Say pinking ten times as fast as you can and thats what it sounds like expect with a metallic sound. Not nice. I had to stop my missus half way up Teretonga straight cos the leggy was doin it so bad.

Sweet cheers for that, now i understand it better 8)

[Guest]

I whipped out the AFM on Saturday and sure enough, the obvious component of the AFM was a little grubby so I used a tissue to dust it off. I haven't used any solvents or anything (someone mentioned AFM cleaner?).

I can't say that it made any difference though.

I'm a little confused about the AFM actually, it has a component that looks a bit like a small capacitor (which was a bit grubby) but I'm wondering about the long hollow stem part. Does it have a MAP sensor built into the top or something?

[Swindog]

Yours have the lil sheild?

[Guest]

Hmm, I don't know! It looks like a hollow tube that hangs down from the actual AFM module. I'll try and take a photo tonight.

[Swindog]

yeah hollow tube but has what looks like a glass bit on the front on an angle. That what my one has anyone. i can see some dirty as stuff on it. Brakekleen didnt clean it!