BP5 shudder

[spuddling aka IMPRZF]

Hi all, driving home from Raglan today my wagon started to do funny things, wondering if anyone else has had the same issue. Car is a 06 BP5 wagon, 2 litre turbo, 5 speed manual. The issue is under 2000 rpm the car started to lurch like it was running out of gas or like riding a bucking bronco. It did it in any gear but only below 2000 rpm, once over 2100 it drove like normal. Also tried it in Eco and non Eco mode ad still did the bucking thing. Car is regularly serviced and by no means thrashed. Any ideas? Or anyone had this issue before. Also once home car had a very strong burnt oil smell. Have had the rocker covers checked last service and all were fine there. Chance that this could be caused by bad plugs or blocked fuel filter? Just wondering if I should replace the simple things before taking it to the shop. Any help greatly appreciated.

[tebbyj]

Check your basics first, plugs, coils, fuel filters. Get it checked for fault codes.

I had a problem similar to this in an old BG5 legacy and it ended up being an O2 sensor spiking and making the ECU do crazy fueling. Which rings true because Cat converters heat up trying to deal with extra un-burnt/partially burnt fuel being pumped through them.

[spuddling aka IMPRZF]

Sounds good will do the basics and see what comes up. Is there anyway of checking the codes like on the older Subaru\'s? Forgot to mention in the first post that it also has a very rough idle. Has had a new air/fuel sensor fitted recently as well.

[tebbyj]

I dont think there is an easy way of doing it with the newer models. Need a scanner.

Also check the AFM they have a tendency of breaking down and not working properly, which can cause a rough idle.

[Eight_dollar]

you can read codes out on the dash

it will dispaly P0XXXX codes for the powertrain

(do a web search for info on how to )

if no cel then prob no code !

[BigJoe]

Had a similar issue in my 2004 2.0R wagon (non turbo EJ204). Would drive like crap in the low rev range and would lurch until around 3000 RPM\'s where it would go back to being smooth again. Got to the point where it would stall when at idle.

Took in into Winger and they reported an error code relating to a faulty mass airflow sensor (hear this is a fairly common issues with some Subaru\'s. Two Legacy owners at my work had to replace theirs as well).

Replaced the MAF and the car has never driven better . You could also pull the MAF out (has two screws for my model) and give it a clean with some MAF cleaner and see if that makes a difference. My old MAF was noticeable duller.

On a side note I got a brand new, genuine MAF for around $100. The dealership gave me a quote for around $450 excluding GST

Best of luck finding out whatever your problem is, I know how annoying it is!

[GorGasmSpecB]

This sounds exactly like the common problem with the filters in the banjo bolts that go to the VTC solenoids being crushed and getting stuck in the solenoid. The solenoid gets jammed at a stupid timing setting and causes rough idle and lumpiness in the low rpm range. I had the same problem about a month ago.

I removed both solenoids and found one of them had a piece of the plastic filter jammed in the mechanism. I removed the remains of the filter, refitted everything and the engine was smooth again.

See this thread:

http://forum.liberty.asn.au/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=13374

Takes about 30 minutes to take the solenoids out and check/clean.

[spuddling aka IMPRZF]

Well got the car back from winger hamilton today, turns out they can\'t find anything wrong with it. No faults, cel etc. they took it for a test run with the computer plugged in and amazingly the car didnt put a foot wrong. They seem to think it is an injector fault but dont want us to pay for new injectors ($1000+) until they know for sure so they just cleaned everything imaginable and stuck it all back together with fingers crossed. I think if it does it again its time to trade up to the 22b they have parked in their show room........

[thorpy]

Not exactly the same but we had some shuddering and erratic idle issues with our BL when we first got it.

Ended up being buildup of crap in the throttle stepper motor ( well I think that\'s what its called )

[GorGasmSpecB]

Dude, remove the VTC solenoids (one on each side), and check that they move and that nothing is jammed in them and remove and debris from crushed banjo bolt filters. The symptoms match pretty much exactly to this fault and only takes 30 minutes to fix.

pics on how to do it are on this page:

http://forum.liberty.asn.au/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=13374&start=30

This wont\' come up in a "scan" but if the tech monitors the engine they should note that the timing at low rpm is all up the shit.

Even if it isn\'t this problem, its an easy check and crosses it off the list.

[ADIKT]

 GorGasmSpecB said:

Dude, remove the VTC solenoids (one on each side), and check that they move and that nothing is jammed in them and remove and debris from crushed banjo bolt filters. The symptoms match pretty much exactly to this fault and only takes 30 minutes to fix.

pics on how to do it are on this page:

http://forum.liberty.asn.au/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=13374&start=30

This wont\' come up in a "scan" but if the tech monitors the engine they should note that the timing at low rpm is all up the s***.

Even if it isn\'t this problem, its an easy check and crosses it off the list.

dropped my car off to Highbrook auto this morning to get this looked at.

I suspect this is why I have a hesitation under 3k rpm.

Anything over 3k rpm and it smoothens out.

will keep you updated

[GorGasmSpecB]

I had the problem on one bank. I was getting shuddering and almost stalling at low rpm regardless of speed. I imagine it would be a very common fault as they all had the filters, and they\'re all prone to dying.

[ADIKT]

 GorGasmSpecB said:

I had the problem on one bank. I was getting shuddering and almost stalling at low rpm regardless of speed. I imagine it would be a very common fault as they all had the filters, and they\'re all prone to dying.

I don\'t have a shudder, nor a problem with stalling at low revs. (I have a 2L NON turbo Auto)

[spuddling aka IMPRZF]

So far the wagon has driven mint since the winger treatment but will have a look at the banjo bolt tomorrow and see what comes of that. Still has a wee bit of hesitation at low rpm on wot but once pulling 1800rpm plus she pulls like a schoolboy. That 22b is still looking good though....

[ADIKT]

Had mine plugged in to a computer while on a test drive. Avcs is working as it should be.

[spuddling aka IMPRZF]

Well I talked to the mechanic who looked at our car and he swore blue that there was no faults in the computer no issues with the laptop plugged in during their test drive no problem what so ever. Driving home from the shop car still surging, not as bad but still doing it, so pull the banjo bolt out this morning, pull all the fragments of f***ed filter out and what do you know......car is driving mint. So a couple hundy to the mechanics for a fault that they couldn\'t diagnose and half an hour of my time to fix it. Worth doing in my mind.

[Eight_dollar]

honestly tho - they did the right thing - nothing , until the fault is evident on road test to them

nothing worse than them fitting parts you never needed and still having the fault

Although I was sure all dealers removed filter baskets as the cars came thru for service - maybe not all

[tebbyj]

 Eight dollar said:

Although I was sure all dealers removed filter baskets as the cars came thru for service - maybe not all

Didnt do it when I was working a the local suby dealership..

Is it just the legacies effected by this problem?

[Eight_dollar]

 tebbyj']

[quote name='Eight dollar said:

Although I was sure all dealers removed filter baskets as the cars came thru for service - maybe not all

/quote]

Didnt do it when I was working a the local suby dealership..

Is it just the legacies effected by this problem?

all AVCS vehicles

The dealerships not removing them, aren\'t looking after their customers

[GorGasmSpecB]

Hahaha cracks me up. A tip from the internet + 30 minutes under the hood, beats mechanic

I had the same problem, I thought about taking it to a mechanic but knew I was going to get reamed out for $$$ for them to try and diagnose it. So I checked out the liberty forums for rough idle and what do you know, problem solved!

In saying that, any Subaru specialist should be able to diagnose this fault immediately.

[tebbyj]

 GorGasmSpecB said:

Hahaha cracks me up. A tip from the internet + 30 minutes under the hood, beats mechanic

In saying that, any Subaru specialist should be able to diagnose this fault immediately.

They should... haha if you got one who took his job seriously and knew their shit then should know strait away if not straight after plugging in the scan tool and watching live data.

The amount of mechanics i\'ve seen cut corners and miss blatant things is scary....

When me (a first year apprentice at the time) can work into a main Subaru dealer ship and pick up a fault straight away that the supposed professional AND the foreman missed you know somethings not right.

[Eight_dollar]

just a lack of product knowledge which is scary

this fault first started in 04/05

its listed on CS to http://www.clubsub.org.nz/forum/index.php/topic,23227.0.html

[spuddling aka IMPRZF]

Well it seems as though the problem has started again. Driving to drop kids off at kindy started miss firing at any revs any gear, almost stalled when coming to a stop, around 200 rpm then will kick up to 900/100rpm at idle but missing like heck. Also started to get quite hot around 3/4 up temp gauge, normally runs around 1/2. Turned heater on to full temp etc and temp gauge dropped down to 1/2 again. Car was also giving wisps of smoke/steam when stopped. Parked up in shed now waiting to go to wingers on Tuesday, dosnt look good to me........

[tebbyj]

That really doesn\'t sound good.

Was the coolant level low at all? also did you get a Check engine light?

[spuddling aka IMPRZF]

No and no. That is what worries me, last time it did this Wingers ran the diagnosis equipment but couldnt find a fault anywhere, but its there for sure