GT Legacy, Ongoing issues, eating oil, smoking, lack of power; Losing hope

[Try hard]

1998 BH5 REV-A Subaru Legacy GT (stupid twin turbo)

After only owning the car about a month I'm having ongoing problems and it's costing me a fortune. I've had to replace the secondary turbo, and oxygen sensor (only have the front 02 sensor, no rear), and it's had a full service. I've just been to the local Subaru wrecker and explained my problem. What I'm having is **** boost (I do not have a boost gauge, but feels weak. I've previously owned an auto 1998 GTB Legacy, supercharged Toyota Trueno, Turbo Mazda RX7, and in comparison to any of them, this thing I have now is an absolute slug). I'm getting big puffs of blue smoke after engine breaking (obviously burning oil), rough idle, stalling. Living in hilly Dunedin I am to embarrassed to even drive it any more, and don't really want to in case of damaging it further. Anyway the wrecker tells me the primary is most likely blown, which really sucks as I just replaced the secondary. Now I have consistent smoke from the exhaust (not a lot but it's noticeable), but much worse after engine breaking. I'll get a BIG puff and trail after getting back on the accelerator after engine breaking.

I pulled the intercooler off two days ago and there was an excess of oil in there, that is only two weeks after doing a service and cleaning the intercooler out. Also the 4.5l (just to the notch on the dipstick) of oil I filled, was gone, the oil only just read on the dip stick, just (No oil leaks from engine, not a drop of oil on the ground where it's parked). I'd kept an eye on the oil pretty much daily after the service and it didn't seem to drop at all, not until after cleaning the vacuum lines and PCV valve, after then it drank it like a fish. There was oil in the primary and secondary turbo. I could blow through the PCV valve, but not suck through it, seems fine. I'd cleaned out vacuum lines with carb cleaner and blew them out, sprayed the solenoids inside BBOD with carb cleaner and tried to blow them out while in diagnostic mode (both green & black wires connected under dash). I did not clean or blow out the boost controller behind the guard. I would clean the BBOD again but it scares me in case I forget what pipe goes where, but I think I'll just have to anyway. There was an excess of oil on a couple of lines inside the BBOD first time around.

The car did not smoke like this before cleaning out the vacuum lines and PCV valve. But maybe the primary turbo was on it way out, maybe I knocked a pipe/vacuum line that disconnected from a nipple around the PCV, but I couldn't see any stray hoses? Maybe it's still blowing out oil from when the secondary was replaced, from the inlet, uncleaned vac lines, maybe the cats are blocked up with oil in the exhaust, or pools of oil in there, but if there was oil in the exhaust, but that doesn't explain the excess of oil in the intercooler, and what feels like weak boost. Unless the top notch on the dipstick is over filling the oil while on the flat, engine cold (done in the morning before work). Either way It's really doing my head in and before I bite the bullet and put it in the shop and spend a fortune. I'd like some opinions. What the hell is wrong, what could I try, Do I try to source a primary if I can even find one. I'd love to just pull the engine and do a single conversion, which I'm beginning to lean to after the nightmare this has been from day one of owning it. Thinking I should have gone for the Toyota Caldine instead of this Subaru.

If anyone in the Dunedin area with good knowledge of Legacys wants to have a look and go for a drive you're welcome to, I even invite you to come help try diagnose this bloody thing.

Looking at rego papers, car was purchased by last owner in 2011, registered once for 6 months, and never registered again until I brought it three years later. Which leads me to think the previous owner either caused these issues or brought it with these and could never sort them out

UPDATE: Picked up boost gauge after work. Primary running 6psi, secondary running 4 psi, but did surge to 14 psi once on initial secondary kicking in very briefly before quickly dropping back to 4 psi during me testing it (second gear 2k rpm - 7k rpm). I'm suspecting a leak or plumbing issue. Will investigate that when the weather is better. What is the best way to test for leaks? Fill manifold with positive, or vacuum with negative pressure and see if I can hear anything and if that holds pressure for 30 mins of so, I can get my hands on a vacuum pump or compressor.

There are no error codes.

I generally drive like a grandma, nanaing around town, hardely even hitting boost at all.

Also when secondary kicked in I'm hearing a fluttery highish sort of pitch noise, which sounds like it's coming from secondary/drivers side, and it increases in pitch it seems as the car revs out, leak there maybe?

Also note the smoke clears under boost a little, not completely, but the turbos do not seem to be making any difference or increasing the smoke coming from the exhaust, leading me to rule out turbo issues, although the fluttery whine on the newly replaced secondary has me concerned.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Try hard

[Marky]

TL;DR

But it does sound like a borked primary pumping oil into everything (assuming it isn't something worse and motor related)

A replacement primary won't be that huge a mission so don't panic too much about that

It might help a little to know if it is actually boosting or not, "weak boost" doesn't say much - but the oil consumption is a much bigger worry

[Try hard]

It seems to me like botched plumbing, but I can not for the life of me see where I've gone wrong. Everything looks connected, maybe something is blocked or gunked up, possibly causing blowby because it cannot vent the crank case, but would blowby use that much oil if I botched the PCV plumbing and the crank case could not breath. I'll shoot into Repco or supercheap I guess this arvo after work and pick up a boost gauge.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Try hard

[thermos]

You know what, I'd inspect that turbo first thing. Then you can know for sure. Due to the intensely vacuum dependent system these cars run on, it could be causing a lot of issues past simply burning oil. Beyond that.. Here's what I've learned that may help.

ECV solenoid might still be caked with sludge. furthermore line 2 in bbod has a pill in it, was clogged on mine and most of my lines are clean(you may need to push it out and clean it with a pin and some solvent/rub. alcohol. Getting any CELs? Is it pinging? Does the car smell like sulfur after running it a bit hard? If yes it's running too rich and overloading the cat... if the cat were clogged it would smell hot hot.

o2 or maf there.

High pitch noise sounds sort of like wastegate but could also be ECV leaking as it's ostensibly a wastegate too and seems like that sort of issue... take a look here:

http://clubsub.org.nz/forum/showthread.php?41567-CEL-code-65-and-66

Knock sensor could also be cacked if you're not hearing any pinging, which would give you similar results with timing retard.

Best guess the blue smoke is from a dead turbo. So either it's the mess it's left behind or the new turbo.

Edited December 4, 2014 by thermos

[Try hard]

Thanks Thermos that's been a good read.

Back to basics I ran diagnostics. Intake Air Control Valve not doing anything. Also the Exhaust control valve actuator not pushing the rod.

Inside the black box I'v a teed into pipe that leads to no where, and it'd seem oil coming from the end that leads to no where.

I haven't replaced the pipe in the BBOD yet. or cleaned out the mess, will do in due time.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Try hard

[Try hard]

Boost seems to be sorted from cleaning the vac lines and solenoids to some degree. Primary, as I try glance at the gauge, is peaking 11psi. Seems a bit slow to reach full boost. Secondary gets to about 13psi, but it doesn't get there until I button off. . They both are slow to reach full boost, it does not come on strong. Maybe there is a leak, will look into it. It's tempting now to replace the air intake pipe with the silicone one Rossub posted, and even throw that top mount heater. Other issues to deal to first though.

The estranged ticking I could hear has gone from under the bonnet while driving. It seems it was the solenoids making all that noise. There is no noise from BBOD any more. I were so confused thinking it was the lifters, but only on the drivers side. no lifter noises, just the injectors ticking away.

Cleaned MAF, fixed the rough idle. It doesn't purr, occasional but barely noticeable miss or late/early detonation?

Car is still smoking. This is roughly 150km-200km after swapping out the buggered secondary, and over filling the oil, slightly over the top notch. Being overfilled could it have been pushed out the sump and through the PCV. There was oil in the connecting pipe from the sump to the PCV valve when I cleaned it. So I'm wondering if there is oil through the intake, up pipe, Turbo hot side, and exhaust. It would have gone everywhere if it's started at the intake manifold. I cleaned out the intercooler before installing it this time, so will check it again after a drive. I'll look into the slow gain in boost. Maybe the exhaust gas valve rod needs lengthening in regards to the slow but steady gain in boost specifically on the secondary, I'm pretty sure it's shortened in length.

[Marky]

Just pump it full of upper engine clean - doesn't matter if its the genuine subaru one or an aftermarket equivalent - like go to town on it. If you can rule out the intake tract being full of oil you can then at least start to find if and where there is an issue. If it's still smoking and you find the intake clean then you know it's something downstream. There's a vacuum fitting on the intake pipe you could chuck a heap through with the engine off to at least have a go at cleaning that out without removing it - maybe pull out the AFM at the time to be sure it doesn't get contaminated tho. When you crank it it'll pull the foam through then re-insert and try to start it

Deal with the problems one at a time, no point replacing bits and pieces at random - you'd think any quantity of oil enough to be visible burning off would have been dealt to by now?

I'm thinking maybe primary turbo seals - if not then maybe something more terminal, there's only so many places oil can get burnt in a motor....

[Try hard]

Will def look into cleaning out the system with a can or two of upper engine cleaner, trying to start after the AFM. First I think there is a turbo to replace though.

Slept on it, checked oil this morning it's dropped from 2/3rds to 1/3rd full. Went for a drive, seems to be the same slow boost, consistent smoke. Once home left idling for a while and observed smoke coming from under the primary turbo. It didn't look as if it was from the up pipe as if there had dripped on it, maybe the gasket between hotside and up pipe if anything, but I couldn't get a good angle. I'm leaning toward the primary seals are going. So the hunt for a new vf26 and or rebuild it. The secondary I replaced, the turbine/shaft feels pretty solid to the touch with maybe 1mm of play, very minimal. The turbine is definitely not able to touch the housing. Would it have been just seals gone possibly. Oooorrrr Would it be worth rebuilding the vf26 with the turbine and cold side housing of the old vf27 I replaced earlier. What's acceptable shaft play for BB turbos such as the vf27.

Refering to tmh983 post over at SubyClub: http://www.subyclub.com/topic/5276-diy-convert-your-tt-primary-turbo-to-ball-bearing/

[Marky]

I've done the VF27 into primary - it fits into the VF26 exhaust housing so you don't need to remove it from the up-pipe, if you can clock the compressor housing (I couldn't as the hex bolts all stripped, plan B I went to FMIC to suit the non-clocked housing) all you need to do is drill out a mount for the wastegate actuator and block off the relief valve port and you're away. It's a DIY afternoon sort of a job

I wasn't a fan of doing it that method when there's a simpler alternative is all - the way above would work but a better bet would be just get a VF26 front cover milled out to suit

[Try hard]

Thanks, I will look for a vf26 second hand replacement first. But it's tempting to just rebuild and swap the parts on the two turbos. Response is something I really miss with the twin turbo system. If I have no joy finding a replacement within a couple of weeks I'll go ahead making the vf26 BB. It seems the vf26 is becoming harder to come by. You make it sound so easy.

Ordered OBD2 reader today. I wonder if that brings anything further to the party.

Also seriously contemplating the single conversion still. Although trying to telly up the expense, and research parts required to swap out. Ideally I guess if doing it, you may as well flip the manifold and go front mount, even go for an after marker intake manifold, heck even just get one made up. Decisions, and all these first world probs.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Try hard

[Marky]

You'll love the next bit of news that your car isn't properly obd2 compliant, the normal readers don't work on early ish subarus

[SpeedySub]

And if you buy a cheap knock off OBD2 reader it may die on you when you plug it in (or shortly afterwards). The cheap ones are s**t and are cheap for a reason.

[Try hard]

oh that's the best news I could hear guys, thanks. I guess I'll find out if it works in a couple of days when it arrives. I got this one to connect the laptop when diagnosing and tablet for when I want to actively monitor during driving. http://www.stahlcar.nz/diagnostic-tools/obd2-tools/obd2-phone/elm327-bluetooth. Well if it doesn't work at least it didn't cost much.

[Try hard]

Wee update, OBD2 reader couldn't talk with ECU so it was useless. Also the car is fixed after replacing the primary, wastegate & boost controller. I've picked up another bare engine from a 1999 B4 legacy that I'll start rebuilding after the new year for the conversion. All in all, replaced O2 sensor, new primary & secondary turbos, cleaned all vac lines & solenoids, cleaned MAF, adjusted secondary actuator arm, and done a service. But gosh twin turbos just feel so flat through the power delivery.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Try hard

[Marky]

Stock they are - normally only worth about 130-140wkw and less with some heat soak

Normal bolt on mods bump them up to the 170-190wkw range

[kamineko]

 Try hard said:

1998 BH5 REV-A Subaru Legacy GT (stupid twin turbo)

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There are no error codes.

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have you confirmed the CEL lamp is working? does it comes on before normal engine start, or flash consistently during the code check procedure?

[Try hard]

Second hand replacement turbo went just under 50km of being in the car. unfortunately was brought in as condition. On the plus side it's taken out the cats. on the hunt for another vf26.

[Guest]

Did you change oil?

[Try hard]

yes had new oil and blew out the banjo bolt with the compressor. I'd turned it over before actually firing it up to ensure there was oil pressure.

[pixelplay]

Did you ever get to the bottom of the issues with your car?