Please help me sort through all the differences

[angie]

Going through all the different Subaru Legacy models. For models between 2008 and 2011 could someone please, in very very simple terms, explain the main differences.

There are cars ex Japan that are listed as "GT" or "Sports"...are they the same thing?

Is a GT always a 'turbo' car?

Are these 'turbo' cars the ridiculous boy racer things where you cant turn the car off straight away or it makes weird wirrring noises?

How do I know the difference between a 4 gear tranny, a 5 gear tranny and a lineartronic tranny?

What is the difference in terms of driving experience between a 2L turbo and a 2.5 L non turbo?

Do GT or Sports versions have a different suspension compared to others?

Which of the legacy wagons has the most reliable gearbox in the years given above, and why?

What are common faults to look for in these cars when imported ex Japan?

At what km's would one expect to do a first cambelt change and waterpump change?

CAn people please recommend websites that compare different legacy wagon models? Subaru NZ says their lineartronic gear boxes are the bees knees, but other sources say avoid LVT trannys like the plague.

For the years listed above which model would you go for if you were looking for a durable family car..and why.

Thanks for any help...

Angie

[Marky]

 angie said:

Going through all the different Subaru Legacy models. For models between 2008 and 2011 could someone please, in very very simple terms, explain the main differences.

There are cars ex Japan that are listed as "GT" or "Sports"...are they the same thing? (No idea)

Is a GT always a 'turbo' car? (Yes, in the case of a legacy it is)

Are these 'turbo' cars the ridiculous boy racer things where you cant turn the car off straight away or it makes weird wirrring noises? (Turning it off right away is fine. Wirring noises - if you mean the hissing turbo noise like a truck makes then yes, but on a stock car it's 99% un-noticable to an untrained ear. A majority of new cars are turbo these days - it gives more power and better economy from a smaller motor, it USED to be just a go-faster device)

How do I know the difference between a 4 gear tranny, a 5 gear tranny and a lineartronic tranny? (Drive it? Or google the model you are looking at. CVT / Lineartronic drives very noticably different to a normal auto)

What is the difference in terms of driving experience between a 2L turbo and a 2.5 L non turbo? (One goes fast, the other does not. There is a near 150hp difference in power between them - almost double. In the real world it means a more effortless drive, easy overtaking)

Do GT or Sports versions have a different suspension compared to others? (there are a few differences between legacy models, there are a number of spec levels which this forum does argue about a lot so good luck. Key thing to look for is if it has "Bilstein" mentioned anywhere it has the fancy suspension in it and will drive nicer)

Which of the legacy wagons has the most reliable gearbox in the years given above, and why? (The CVT one isn't meant to be that great but the cars are that new still they aren't really blowing up in a great hurry. I don't like driving them much but you get used to it)

What are common faults to look for in these cars when imported ex Japan? (Crap tyres, rust)

At what km's would one expect to do a first cambelt change and waterpump change? (100,000km for the first major service like anything)

CAn people please recommend websites that compare different legacy wagon models? Subaru NZ says their lineartronic gear boxes are the bees knees, but other sources say avoid LVT trannys like the plague. (Google it??)

For the years listed above which model would you go for if you were looking for a durable family car..and why. (Very, very open question. a 2l auto sedan with cloth is markedly different to a turbo manual wagon is different to a 3L 6sp sedan with leather and all the options ticked - decide what you want first then go from there - why settle on "a legacy" without knowing a good reason why? There are a number of alternatives.)

Thanks for any help...

Angie

Need to narrow it down a bit I think

Edited January 4, 2015 by Marky

[mitSUBishi-guy]

 angie said:

At what km's would one expect to do a first cambelt change and waterpump change?

Cambelts - not just mileage but also age. I was advised by the local dealership that the legacy cambelt should be replaced at 5 years or 100,000km whichever comes first (I think it's in the car handbook too). I'd suggest that for any import or 2nd hand car without a genuine or verifiable service history, change the cambelt straight away or at the very least get a mechanic to check it's condition asap.

[angie]

Thanks.

Yes we have looked at alternatives such as a Mazda Altenza wagon and Honda Accord Wagon.

We have just updated our sedan and now updating our big euro wagon for a jap wagon.

Currently thinking along the line of a legacy wagon 2.5 L (vs the 2.4 L Mazda or Honda).

Currently thinking non turbo as we want reliable no fuss motoring but still want a little effortless zip.

There are several 2.5 L automatic legacy wagon models 2008-2011, are any more 'luxurious' than others? We want to avoid the models that are 'rare' in NZ to ensure new parts as needed aren't difficult to find and overly expensive.

Quietly thinking of a 2008 to avoid the LVT trannies in the newer cars... anyone have any thoughts pro or con about this decision?

Would a 3.0 litre in this age bracket always be 5speed? Are the bigger engines harder wearing on a transmission than the 2.5 L? Definitely don't want a manual and definitely don't want anything bigger than 3 L. Its supposed to be a smooth, reliable family wagon.

For all imported cars ex Japan does the sound system head unit need to be completely replaced or just a band expander fitted?

Thanks

[Andy_Mac]

You shouldn't be concerned about the 3L engines wearing the tranny out. the 2.5 would probably be worse if anything as it has ALOT less power so will have to change gears more often to stay in a useable powerband.

Also incase you hadn't realised the 3.0L engines were taken away with the 5th gen legacy's, 2008/09 onwards and went to 3.6L. So if you're sure the 3.6L isn't for you you'd have to go to the older style.

They all need a band expander at the very least, though their performance can be quite crap in some instances. If you are looking at a car with a base stereo, vs optioned mcintosh one, then swapping out the headunit is a simple process and gives you bluetooth usb and all the rest for a couple of hundred bucks.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Andy_Mac

[GorGasmSpecB]

Please see the wiki pages on these models. 2008 is 4th generation old shape, 2009-2014 is 5th generation new shape.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Legacy_%28fifth_generation%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Legacy_(fourth_generation)

I will assume you are actually looking at 5th generations exclusively.

The non-turbo 4 cylinder models all have CVT trans.

The 2.5 turbo model have either 5 speed auto, or 6 speed manual.

The 3.6 has only the 5 speed auto.

If you look at a car likes it's a toaster then get the 2.5 non turbo. If you have any passing interest in cars, or driving then the 2.5GT turbo is the one to go for.

[angie]

All good...

I was thinking of dropping to a 4th generation to avoid the LVT trannies... that's the only reason I would consider a slightly older car... Subaru says their LVT trannies are bomb proof... but I have heard from other sources that LVTs don't last very long although they do provide a smooth ride with a slightly funny noise... so I am open to a 4th (2008) or 5th (2009 onwards)...

As for gearboxes I am under the impression a 5 speed auto box in a Subaru is a better gearbox than an LVT? I don't know the ins and outs, hence all my silly questions.

I didn't realise there wasn't a 3 L car, just a 2.5 then a 3.3 L.

I used to own an early GT legacy... great drive and power but always had problems with the cooling system and the turbo... hence for a family sedan I'd rather avoid a turbo.

The McIntosh stereo... never heard of it... is that a high end spec unit?

Thanks;)

[Andy_Mac]

For imports

4th gens had 2.0L gt's, 3.0R, 2.5i and 2.0r

5ths had 2.5L gt's, 3.6r, and 2.5i, don't think they did a 2.0r off the top of my head but could be wrong.

There was never a 3.3L option, that was just me writing faster than I think.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with 4th gens, and since its a older design you can generally get a higher specc'd one for the same price as a base newer one. And not to mention they look better, in my eyes at least.

If you had one in the past it was probably a twin turbo model which are horrendously over thought and over engineered and just a complicated bastard when things go wrong. Newer ones are a lot more reliable, as with most newer cars out there.

The mcintosh setup is just the up market stereo they put in that's a real pain to do any sort upgrades on, sound is pretty good but lacks any real inputs.

Sounds like a 4th gen 3.0r auto would be your best bet if it's in the budget. From what others say the 3.0r's actually get better economy than the 2.5i since the motor doesn't have to strain itself as much, sure some of the auto lovers out there have figures to back it up.

[angie]

For imports

4th gens had 2.0L gt's, 3.0R, 2.5i and 2.0r

5ths had 2.5L gt's, 3.6r, and 2.5i, don't think they did a 2.0r off the top of my head but could be wrong.

Thanks...

Does the 4th gen 3R have a 5 speed box same as the 2.5 i ?

I assume the 5th gen 2.5 i are all LVT?

With Si drive... does this mean these cars have the expensive suspension? When we replaced the suspension on an old 7 series BMW we found out that the self levelling suspension cost 3 times the price of a 'standard' suspension... ie coils and shocks.

Thanks

[Andy_Mac]

Yea it has 5 speed auto box.

From what i can find they seem to only be cvt for 2.5i and normal auto option for gt and 3.6r

Na si drive is purely ecu/ transmission stuff for autos.

Changes throttle response mostly, and gear change points for autos.

[GorGasmSpecB]

The 4th generation uses a 5spd auto in almost all cases, no CVT.

There is nothing expensive on the Legacy like a 7 series BMW. One cost $200k the other $60k.

The worst you could come across is the motor of gearbox dying, but that could happen to any car.

SI drive is a bunch of electronic programs as mentioned, applied to facelift 2006-2008 4th generation cars.

I would still get the 5th gen 2.5 turbo as my first choice as it is the best car of the bunch. Good power, reasonable economy and dare i say better resale value (although Legacy's are rubbish for resale), or a 2.5 non turbo if you care not for performance. If you are really worried about stuff dying and unexpected costs then I suggest you purchase a warranty. 3 years should cost about $1400.

The Mazda Atenza among others is probably a better non turbo car.

Edited January 6, 2015 by GorGasmSpecB

[angie]

The Mazda Atenza among others is probably a better non turbo car.

Thanks.

Currently looking at a 2010/11 Atenza wagon vs 2009/10 Honda Accord wagon vs Legacy Wagon (2008 2.5L with 5 speed auto or 2010 2.5L with LVT box. All much of a muchness pricewise. All drive fun to me. Finding it hard to pull the trigger.

[Marky]

Atenza will be a better bet all around, and use far less gas than the others if you get one with the skyactiv stuff.

To be blunt if you're looking just at the non turbo models you'd probably get a better overall car if you went euro still or even a late model commodore. A mid 2000's A/S4 or 3-5 series beemer will be a lot more car for the money, just pick a more common model and you're pretty safe.

Subarus shine in their top end or performance stuff but the middle / lower end stuff isn't anything amazing (compared to the competition)

Bear in mind you're coming onto a forum of mostly petrolhead enthusiast types here, we're more likely to choose the higher powered option over the leathery comfy one every time

The bad rap that the CVT transmissions got was more from the early runs of them where (mitsi's especially) had a habit of blowing up, these days they have their sh!t sorted and reliability isn't the issue, it's more the unusual style of drive they can give before you're used to it. Motoring writers hate them, but in theory at least they should give the best balance of performance and economy possible.

If you're really tossing up, drive one of the 6cyl vs 4cyl legacies and make your own mind up. The 4cyl non turbo may be more than adequate for you and you're worried about nothing. The 2l turbo in automatic form is almost identical in outright speed to the 6cyl model, however they are aimed at different markets to a degree - some people either love or hate the idea of a turbo engine and they market both for that reason.