Checking for damage

[evoeater99]

car has recently had impact to the front right cams, belt snapped on impact. have taken the engine out and removed damaged side rocker cover to have a look, just wondering if anyone knows what to look for or what to remove, move ect to find out if anythings buggered ?

[WRXONP]

shouldn't have any thing damaged as subaru motors are not interference engines . meaning when the cam belt breaks the cams go to a neutral position where all the valves are up. i would fit another cam belt and see if it runs . . . or take head off and inspect valves

[DRFVDR]

 WRXONP said:

shouldn't have any thing damaged as subaru motors are not interference engines . meaning when the cam belt breaks the cams go to a neutral position where all the valves are up. i would fit another cam belt and see if it runs . . . or take head off and inspect valves

Not entirely correct

the Valves wont hit the pistons IE non interference BUT the intake and exhaust valves can hit each other so still end up with bent valves

As WRXONP suggested fit new belt and see if she runs u will find out fairly quickly

[WRXONP]

oh really . sorry my bad . my old work mate had a cam belt snap due to seized idler . fitted new cam belt and it was sweet didn't damage the valves . . . but it guess it comes down to what happens when it breaks. what i would suggest is fitting a cam belt and turn the motor and make sure there's no weird noises and then do a cylinder leakage test . this will tell you definitely if it has bent or broken valves . if you do the test and the pressure gauge drops listen out the intake and exhaust and that will tell you what valve is leaking :-) can talk you through a basic cylinder leakage test if you can get your hands on one ?

[WRXONP]

cylinder leakage is much easier with the motor out too . just re read and you have a damaged rocker cover ? any pieces of alloy go into the head ? you don't want that going around breaking stuff :-(

[evoeater99]

oh no sorry mis lead you a bit there, i have taken the rocker cover off from the side of the cams that was damaged. no damage to anything else but belt, cams on that side and the plastic cambelt cover. i only took the rocker cover off to look inside but don't really know what to look for haha so engines out .. but don't i need a special 'leak down tester' to check compression ? one that has dual guages so it can be hooked up through an air compressor? cause i can't seem to find anyone with one to borrow or one for less than $200 which i don't really wanna spend and only use once

[evoeater99]

oh by the way its a 2000 twin turbo BH5 legacy if thats affects anything..

[Stoffa]

I may have spare cam pullies if your looking for replacements

[evoeater99]

yeah could be! how much? what else you got in the way off parts to suit my car?

[Stoffa]

$20 each, I dont have a full set though so I need to know which ones your need.

If you replacing your cambelt at the same time I have a late model tensioner thats only done 1500kms, its been retensioned to the factory instructions in a press $40 (normally about $150)

[soopersubaru]

 WRXONP said:

shouldn't have any thing damaged as subaru motors are not interference engines . meaning when the cam belt breaks the cams go to a neutral position where all the valves are up. i would fit another cam belt and see if it runs . . . or take head off and inspect valves

Do some research...........only the early turbo and N/A motors are non interference engines. the Version 7 and above will nail at least 8 of the valves when the belt goes ping!!!

NEVER EVER use a re compressed belt tensioner either...Another sure way to doom!! and a thrown missed timed belt one day......Seen it a few times. Cowboys or cheap jobs!!! every time!!!

[Stoffa]

 soopersubaru']

[quote name='WRXONP said:

shouldn't have any thing damaged as subaru motors are not interference engines . meaning when the cam belt breaks the cams go to a neutral position where all the valves are up. i would fit another cam belt and see if it runs . . . or take head off and inspect valves

/quote]

Do some research...........only the early turbo and N/A motors are non interference engines. the Version 7 and above will nail at least 8 of the valves when the belt goes ping!!!

NEVER EVER use a re compressed belt tensioner either...Another sure way to doom!! and a thrown missed timed belt one day......Seen it a few times. Cowboys or cheap jobs!!! every time!!!

Do you own research buddy, if you cant reuse a tensioner, why does the subaru workshop manual show you how to compress them WITHOUT damaging them??? If its done wrong with too much pressure or compressed too fast it can cause damage. i.e in a vice.

copy and pasted from the manual

1) Preparation for installation of automatic belt tension

adjuster assembly:

CAUTION:

Always use a vertical type pressing tool to

move the adjuster rod down.

Do not use a lateral type vise.

Push the adjuster rod vertically.

Be sure to slowly move the adjuster rod down

applying a pressure of 294 N (30 kgf, 66 Ib).

Press-in the push adjuster rod gradually taking

more than three minutes.

Do not allow press pressure to exceed 9,807

N (1,000 kgf, 2,205 Ib).

Press the adjuster rod as far as the end surface

of the cylinder. Do not press the adjuster

rod into the cylinder. Doing so may damage the

cylinder.

Do not release the press pressure until stopper

pin is completely inserted.

(1) Attach the automatic belt tension adjuster

assembly to the vertical pressing tool.

(2) Slowly move the adjuster rod down with a

pressure of 294 N (30 kgf, 66 Ib) until the adjuster

rod is aligned with the stopper pin hole in the

cy1 inde r.

And it doesn't ALWAYS cause damage to valves, I'm sure a leakdown test will proove that.

[Stoffa]

 evoeater99 said:

yeah could be! how much? what else you got in the way off parts to suit my car?

Just checked out my parts, your in luck, I've got both right hand cam pullies and the matching front cam cover.

They off a V5 engine so as long as you dont have AVCS they'll fit

$80 for the lot, PM me if your keen

[Guest]

Remove the front caps on the camshafts were the seal is

If the engine has taken a load on the end of the cam, it will smash the cam retaining grove out of the head

+1 for reusing tensioner if done properly - as per stoffa's reply

[slystiguy]

 soopersubaru']

[quote name='WRXONP said:

shouldn't have any thing damaged as subaru motors are not interference engines . meaning when the cam belt breaks the cams go to a neutral position where all the valves are up. i would fit another cam belt and see if it runs . . . or take head off and inspect valves

/quote]

Do some research...........only the early turbo and N/A motors are non interference engines. the Version 7 and above will nail at least 8 of the valves when the belt goes ping!!!

NEVER EVER use a re compressed belt tensioner either...Another sure way to doom!! and a thrown missed timed belt one day......Seen it a few times. Cowboys or cheap jobs!!! every time!!!

DO I DARE GET STARTED ON YOU AGAIN, i got a warning for the last time I messed with you but it was so so worth it. I dare say you are the biggest cowboy ive seen on here? trying to sell a modified water to air setup for over 1k

[WRXONP]

lol lol club sub is the place for some heated discussions ahhh . . do the leakage test man

[evoeater99]

 Stoffa']

[quote name='evoeater99 said:

yeah could be! how much? what else you got in the way off parts to suit my car?

/quote]

Just checked out my parts, your in luck, I've got both right hand cam pullies and the matching front cam cover.

They off a V5 engine so as long as you dont have AVCS they'll fit

$80 for the lot, PM me if your keen

awesome! will PM you once have sorted a few things man.

hahaha tell me about it ay, getting top notch help from all the subaru enthusiasts/experts on clubsub as well as reading heated banter , Love it!. will do both though since the engines out and rocker cover is out il try 'Ichi Ban's' method and then leakage test as i probably wont know what i'm looking for ha. can get my hands on a air compressor from work and have a compression tester in the garage like this.. http://www.wbnoble.com/forsale/meters/RAC_compression_tester.JPG is that all i need ?

[WRXONP]

a cylinder leakage tester and a compression tester are 2 separate things. with cylinder leakage you pressurise the cylinder and watch the gauge to see if there any leakage . compression tester uses a gauge in the spark plug hole and you crank the motor and see what pressure is created . . . ideally in your situation you would want to do a leakage test

[soopersubaru]

 slystiguy']

[quote name='WRXONP said:

shouldn't have any thing damaged as subaru motors are not interference engines . meaning when the cam belt breaks the cams go to a neutral position where all the valves are up. i would fit another cam belt and see if it runs . . . or take head off and inspect valves

/quote]

Do some research...........only the early turbo and N/A motors are non interference engines. the Version 7 and above will nail at least 8 of the valves when the belt goes ping!!!

NEVER EVER use a re compressed belt tensioner either...Another sure way to doom!! and a thrown missed timed belt one day......Seen it a few times. Cowboys or cheap jobs!!! every time!!!

DO I DARE GET STARTED ON YOU AGAIN, i got a warning for the last time I messed with you but it was so so worth it. I dare say you are the biggest cowboy ive seen on here? trying to sell a modified water to air setup for over 1k

Hey.Glad to catch up!!

Always the best way is the correct way with new parts where applicable...

My Opinion is:- always use a new tensioner!! (good advice)

Who has the correctly set, gauge calibrated, vertical press in their back yard! Come on, we all know what happens in the shed vice A?

Yes I am responsible for the water to air soopercooler at a reasonable cost...Again my opinions!

Cowboy? I can ride a horse!! Can also advise on the building of hi horse engines that last.....Proven!

[soopersubaru]

 evoeater99 said:

car has recently had impact to the front right cams, belt snapped on impact. have taken the engine out and removed damaged side rocker cover to have a look, just wondering if anyone knows what to look for or what to remove, move ect to find out if anythings buggered ?

Do the leak down test,? All good at that stage? reassemble with new cam wheels an seals. Possibly idler wheels and the water pump and thermostat depending if its older than 100 thou Km ..A new tensioner! . And away you go. Maybe do the rocker cover gaskets an seal washers too.

Opinion statement from soopersubaru! ( Hi horse rider!)

[DRFVDR]

 soopersubaru']

[quote name='evoeater99 said:

car has recently had impact to the front right cams, belt snapped on impact. have taken the engine out and removed damaged side rocker cover to have a look, just wondering if anyone knows what to look for or what to remove, move ect to find out if anythings buggered ?

/quote]

Do the leak down test,? All good at that stage? reassemble with new cam wheels an seals. Possibly idler wheels and the water pump and thermostat depending if its older than 100 thou Km ..A new tensioner! . And away you go. Maybe do the rocker cover gaskets an seal washers too.

Opinion statement from soopersubaru! ( Hi horse rider!)

Would plus one this and use GENUINE gaskets and washers only

[Guest]

later tensioners can NOT be successfully reused by compressing in a vice - this allows air inside the main tension cavity

They MUST be compressed vertically, yes you need access to a press to do it

And if you have half a brain you dont need pressure gauge, just take your time

[evoeater99]

 WRXONP said:

a cylinder leakage tester and a compression tester are 2 separate things. with cylinder leakage you pressurise the cylinder and watch the gauge to see if there any leakage . compression tester uses a gauge in the spark plug hole and you crank the motor and see what pressure is created . . . ideally in your situation you would want to do a leakage test

dam thought so was just hoping you were talking about some new method that didn't involve me buying a leakdown tester haha. cheapest one i can find is like $200 and no hire place in dunedin has one nor a garage to lend one. so next question is does anyone know a sure way of getting my hands on one or have one to lend? or do garages have a method of testing it with the engine out?

if the leak down tester goes accordingly i will be replacing as many seals and gaskets as i can as well as cleaning it up ect before going back in using nothing other than genuine parts 8)

[soopersubaru]

 evoeater99']

[quote name='WRXONP said:

a cylinder leakage tester and a compression tester are 2 separate things. with cylinder leakage you pressurise the cylinder and watch the gauge to see if there any leakage . compression tester uses a gauge in the spark plug hole and you crank the motor and see what pressure is created . . . ideally in your situation you would want to do a leakage test

/quote]

dam thought so was just hoping you were talking about some new method that didn't involve me buying a leakdown tester haha. cheapest one i can find is like $200 and no hire place in dunedin has one nor a garage to lend one. so next question is does anyone know a sure way of getting my hands on one or have one to lend? or do garages have a method of testing it with the engine out?

if the leak down tester goes accordingly i will be replacing as many seals and gaskets as i can as well as cleaning it up ect before going back in using nothing other than genuine parts 8)

Simply use a pressure gauge inline from the compressor to the spark plug hole(wreck a spark plug and weld a length of pipe to it. with the cams loose apply pressure to each cylinder and lock off the supply of air when full gauge pressure is achieved....time the falling pressure of each..Be Careful,! as the crank will move on application of pressure as it moves the piston to the bottom...This is a leakdown test...The only way to check with engine out/heads on

results should be within 10% on dry cylinders (ring check) or 5% on oiled cylinders (valve check)

[WRXONP]

aye ? the way k was told is you have the cam belt on . set the cylinder you want to test to top dead centre with both valves shut which is between compression and combustion strokes . pressurise the cylinder and if the gauge drops you have leakage . . if it drops and you hear out intake its intake valve leak. if out exhaust then exhaust valves . if radiator cap off and pressurising then head gasket . if take oil cap off and leaking there then piston rings. pretty straight forward logic . . . a good engine have no leakage