wastegate position.

[Koom]

 raymong said:

the external works on a pressure spring...

let say when the gate opens at 10psi.. being a 38mm external the vf22 internal would be like 28-30mm..

it lets out too much,thus under boost...the wastegate doesnt see the 10psi anymore ..thus closing the gate till it reaches 10psi again...thus the opening and closing of the gate to regulate 10 psi...seems logical really..

also...makes a difference on the amount of boost you run really..low boost means more exhaust gas is vented and high boost less is vented..

That would be true if the wastegate opened to 100% at the instant that it saw the 10psi from its reference pressure source.

I would have thought that it works more like ~7psi comes down the hose to the diaphragm, this cracks the valve in the wategate off its seat, releasing some gases from pre-turbine. Then as the pressure in the hose rises to 10psi, the valve opens to a point where it reaches an equilibrium between venting gases past the turbine and leaving enough gas in the turbine housing to power the turbine. If the pressure in the reference hose goes above 10psi, then the valve opens further which changes the balance of gases so that the power the turbine can provide is lower and therefore the boost pressure lowers.

More of a case of the valve balancing at the point where 10psi is created in the manifold (if 10psi is our example pressure). Rather than the valve rapidly fluctuating between full opened and fully closed.

The diameter of the valve doesn't really matter as it will crack open at the corresponding spring pressure. If the same spring was used in both the 38mm external wastegate and the 22mm internal wastegate, then you would most likely get a resulting difference in manifold pressures.

Although it would actually rely more on the area of the diaphragm than the spring force.

[Guest]

 raymong said:

could be problems with factory wastegate actuator... what turbo u running??

vf23 turbo.could the spring inside the internal be getting abit soft or seizing some how?.

[raymong]

i know what you mean...sorry my bad but i didnt mean that its opening fully and closing fully...

as it would only take fractions of a second for it to fluctuate..

[Koom]

 sti8u']

[quote name='WRXONP said:

The rally cars ive seen with restrictors still run a waste gate ? They would make allot more power without the restrictor . But they build the set up to suit the restrictor

/quote]

I was being facetious. But then its not a bad plan. How much duty cycle were they running to the wastegate on those rally cars

Wastegates are for pussy's anyway. They just lower the amount of boost that you could be shoving into your motor!

Same way as brakes just slow you down.......

im sure you make more power with a external.my mate did a dyno without external he got 201kw he got a external welded on the manifold and less boost.he dynod it again and got 215kw.he had the proof of it.seems to be a small upgrade.

Again, I was being facetious (google it )

And I used the term "wastegate" to mean any form of bypassing the turbine section of the turbo by means of a valve attached to the exhaust manifold. This means internal and external wastegates. If you don't vent any of the gases, then you'll supply maximum power to the turbine up to the point where it chokes and can no longer flow any more air.

Which will actually be at a much lower flowrate than what the compressor can supply, thus also restricting the ultimate power the engine will make but kinda ruins the pisstake when you put facts into the mix

[raymong]

they do wear out..i have had quite afew of factory actuators f''k out..if its stuck shut will over boost...

there is quite a bit of tech to mounting the actuator...

they need preload on the actuator so it stays shut on normal driving ..too much overboost too less underboost

it also affects spool times and amount of boost you can run

[Guest]

lol was just proving a point.a simple upgrade.made him more kw.less boost more power.id be happy with that.

[Guest]

 raymong said:

they do wear out..i have had quite afew of factory actuators f''k out..if its stuck shut will over boost...

there is quite a bit of tech to mounting the actuator...

they need preload on the actuator so it stays shut on normal driving ..too much overboost too less underboost

it also affects spool times and amount of boost you can run

so whats my best option.external wastegate 15psi spring.or recondition my internal?if possible lol

[raymong]

i cant remember ...i know the factory actuator on vf22 is 15psi. i think the vf23 was only 7psi altho some mite have 15psi also..

cheaper to get another internal actuator than to get a external wastegate and have it mounted and running(plumbed in)

[Guest]

il have everything this weekend for a external setup.all i need is the wastegate.i gues finding a new internal wuld be cheaper.but i may aswell "upgrade" lol

[raymong]

yea u could do that...

[sultan]

 sti8u']

[quote name='sultan said:

this is quite simple really. to gain more power, you need to have at least one of the following. increased air density, increased air flow, decrease in air temperature, advance in ignition timing or leaner fuel mixture. the only one of those that the wastegate has any influence over when compared to another wastegate and/or position, is air density aka boost. so it's not really possible to gain more power without increasing the boost in this scenario. the only reason boost would be increased is if it's exceeding what the boost is meant to be at, aka poor wastegate function.

to answer the actual question, what position is better, i think the real answer is who cares. i imagine all you want is to go baahhhhhhhhhhhp in which case mounted any where will do it. if you want to make your car go faster, keep your internal gate, and do something more worth while with your $$$ and time. if you have boost control issues, it is NOT because of your current wastegate.

/quote]

cheers for that bro.myinternal is faulty and cant handle much more than 15psi with the tap on.and with the factory soleniod hookd up it spikes quite abit..so yeh a external is what i need,etha way i need to get rid of the internal.

so one boost control method overboosts and the other underboosts? buy a better boost controller. an external wastegate will not make a lick of difference to you

lol it was a atomic boost tee.highyly recomend for subaru cause it uses the same bleed valve system.mine was fully unscrewd and could only manage 15psi.

but you've said with the other control method you "spike" aka run more than the desired boost. this means the wastegate can definately stay closed under load, which is what you want to make more boost. aka, you have a boost control problem. not a wastegate problem.

[Guest]

If there is something wrong with your turbos wastegate

I'd have tht the simplier solution would be upgrade to another bigger better turbo...

Probably about the same cost but less hassle

[Pappu1]

 raymong said:

snip ...i know the factory actuator on vf22 is 15psi. i

can anyone confirm that plz.. i was under the impression they were all the round the 7psi mark... ???

[wrx_lou]

Mine was 7psi. But was a new one not factory fitted.

[Pappu1]

anyone know what the stock one for vf22 is

[Guest]

my internal wastegate runs about 8 9 psi when running actuater pressure,but running it like that it feeels slow,i only run it like that when i wana save gas.

seems more logical that a external will flow motor than you internal will.ur internal is what about 22ml?and a external is 38ml+.

so many people have recomended wastegates to me.easy to maintain.change the spring wheneva you wanna change boost.

i wouldnt mind trying a decent ebc with my internal and see how it goes.but the atomic boost tee i used was rubbish.

[WRXONP]

I used atomic boost tee on external and it held boost fine . Now I run ebc on external and it holds steady as . . . . Ive never seen a factory 15 pound internal . . . I had a vf22 and was around 7 to 8 psI . My vf23 is the same . I think some ones confused with the base spring pressure and the boost it runs with factory solenoid ?

[johnny5]

am I to late to jump in, maybe its gone off topic but from what we tested in oz at a mates workshop with external positions was that the external placed in a good position so as not to interrupt gas flow and cause turbulence was the best place to mount it a nice flowing angle off the manifold would not hinder the flow off the gas therefore making the turbo spool faster if ya need proof look at HKS manifolds and the angles with which the externals are mounted.... Another form of boost control is to use a blow valve so that it leaks at a certain point have seen it done like this a few times very different but just as effective

[WRXONP]

Some drag cars use waste gates on the inter cooler piping to control boost as well

[johnny5]

yea have heard of that but havent seen it for myself

[CUDDAS]

 johnny5 said:

am I to late to jump in, maybe its gone off topic but from what we tested in oz at a mates workshop with external positions was that the external placed in a good position so as not to interrupt gas flow and cause turbulence was the best place to mount it a nice flowing angle off the manifold would not hinder the flow off the gas therefore making the turbo spool faster if ya need proof look at HKS manifolds and the angles with which the externals are mounted.... Another form of boost control is to use a blow valve so that it leaks at a certain point have seen it done like this a few times very different but just as effective

^^ I have made 3-4 with 'flowing angles ;D' If you buy quality they come with guidlines (installation tips) too, pretty simple & has been for a few years now. 90deg off the collector is a piss poor attempt in my mind BUT it's cheap & easy

[WRXONP]

There one in the latest performance car . . Has an external gate to control boost . But also a gate on the inter cooler piping to be able to control boost (obviously lower) when on the 2 step

[vorigan]

wow im lost for words

drags use presure relief valves to protect against over boost or backfires

if everyone treated others with a little respect you wouldnt get half the crap thats posted around here thus why i dont bother, to many keyboard pros that couldnt find the filler cap if it didnt have "oil" written on it let alone be turbo pros.

my blet carry on theres great progress being made.....

[CUDDAS]

mine doesnt have oil stamped on it it say's Turbosmart & may be the most over priced thing i own

[johnny5]

 CUDDAS']

[quote name='johnny5 said:

am I to late to jump in, maybe its gone off topic but from what we tested in oz at a mates workshop with external positions was that the external placed in a good position so as not to interrupt gas flow and cause turbulence was the best place to mount it a nice flowing angle off the manifold would not hinder the flow off the gas therefore making the turbo spool faster if ya need proof look at HKS manifolds and the angles with which the externals are mounted.... Another form of boost control is to use a blow valve so that it leaks at a certain point have seen it done like this a few times very different but just as effective

/quote]

^^ I have made 3-4 with 'flowing angles ;D' If you buy quality they come with guidlines (installation tips) too, pretty simple & has been for a few years now. 90deg off the collector is a piss poor attempt in my mind BUT it's cheap & easy

Most definately and thats how most externals I have seen in Nz are mounted 90 deg I think are case is proven with Siamese dump pipes sums it all up in one