GDB STI T/S headers vs Legacy GT T/S headers

[hunter951]

Hi Guys

Even though i love my setup at the moment with my fujitsubo headers etc i eventually want to do a twin scroll conversion and will sell my setup as a complete. Im still at university so probably wont be for a year or so, but if a manifold/sump setup pops up over summer while im working and have $$$ i may grab it so need to know more info.....

Sooooo my question is... is there any difference between GDB STI T/S headers and Legacy GT T/S headers? diameter wise? performance and flow wise?

the TD04HLA headers are the one i mean...(there a setup on trademe, but the pipe diameter looks differnt)... and obviouly i wont use a TD04HLA ill use a vf36 or the likes

obviously the sump etc will be the same? but im not sure about the headers so some info would be appreciated. Or any comment on s/s vs t/s... i go back n forth between converting or staying single. Clearyly i should have spent my $$$ from the start to get all the twin scroll parts and not on my current headers etc, but i didnt know what i do today.... so my lose.

ultimately the conversion is to gain a wider power band for now and preperation for when i rebuild the engine and do front facing intake, twisted turbo and link etc in the future

cheers

Edited October 25, 2015 by hunter951

[Guest]

Ok so there is no bad side to ts. The legy and sti ts sumps are the same. The legy primaries are 36mm vs sti 38mm. The up pipe flange on the legy headers is weird which is no drama if twisting but is a pita for stock location. For sti you can buy a td05 bolt on housing which means you can run a td06h turbine 300wkw-. Otherwise garrett options are available. Kinugawa sell both housings.

[Guest]

There is perrin testing onthe legy vs perrin 38mm and sti vs perrin along with their 42mm version iirc.

[hunter951]

well thats a quick answer cheers. so T/S FTW. ill go for the sti one seeing as there is a difference. a v9 spec C full setup popped up the other week for 1600... had everything from sump to dump pipe + turbo. i was gutted i didnt have the coin

[Guest]

 hunter951 said:

well thats a quick answer cheers. so T/S FTW. ill go for the sti one seeing as there is a difference. a v9 spec C full setup popped up the other week for 1600... had everything from sump to dump pipe + turbo. i was gutted i didnt have the coin

Waste of time with a vf36 tho. You wont see f all gain with a turbo thats too small for engine in single scroll form. You can make a ss vf comp surge easy as. My original murch hybrid wouldve been awesome in ts form but the 4in inlet was a tad hard to fit under mani. He works magic when he cuts the td05 turbine to his spec in a 7cm stock housing gives spool while supporting big compressors.

If anyone has a td05h ts housing and a little nouse they can borrow my 20g with murch turbine for power and egbp testing.

Edited October 25, 2015 by evowrx

[Jono24]

That's exactly what I plan to do with my vf37 and rebuilt short block.

V7 avcs heads, vf37 hot side with td05 guts, murch wheels and td06 comp housing. I'm getting excited posting about it

[Guest]

 Jono24 said:

That's exactly what I plan to do with my vf37 and rebuilt short block.

V7 avcs heads, vf37 hot side with td05 guts, murch wheels and td06 comp housing. I'm getting excited posting about it

Garage thread...keep all the excitement in one place. If you buy a vf36 ts td05h housing off kinugawa welcome to throw mine on and see how it goes with a gotasuby tune before committing to anything.

[hunter951]

 evowrx said:

Waste of time with a vf36 tho. You wont see f all gain with a turbo thats too small for engine in single scroll form. You can make a ss vf comp surge easy as. My original murch hybrid wouldve been awesome in ts form but the 4in inlet was a tad hard to fit under mani. He works magic when he cuts the td05 turbine to his spec in a 7cm stock housing gives spool while supporting big compressors.

If anyone has a td05h ts housing and a little nouse they can borrow my 20g with murch turbine for power and egbp testing.

That sounds like a plan. Its all just the building blocks though. I have big plans for this engine when the time comes just need to graduate and get some solid $$ flowing. But if i end up getting a twin scroll setup eary a vf36 will be allgood compared to my current vf30.

[Guest]

 hunter951 said:

That sounds like a plan. Its all just the building blocks though. I have big plans for this engine when the time comes just need to graduate and get some solid $$ flowing. But if i end up getting a twin scroll setup eary a vf36 will be allgood compared to my current vf30.

Look at dyno sheets between vf30/34/36/37. Theyre all give similar results whether its ss or ts. Can always buy a p25 housing and convert a bb vf as a cheaper solution but spending 6-800 on a vf36 is pointless for minimal gains.

[hunter951]

 evowrx said:

Look at dyno sheets between vf30/34/36/37. Theyre all give similar results whether its ss or ts. Can always buy a p25 housing and convert a bb vf as a cheaper solution but spending 6-800 on a vf36 is pointless for minimal gains.

completely understand... but whats the point in getting a mildly capable turbo when my plan if for 400+whp, i want a bit more than just a vf?

[Guest]

From what youre saying if you bought a setup like the on with the vf36 you would bolt it on. Point im making is its a senseless spend better off throwing a cheap vf with a 50 buck p25 saves you 3-400 odd bucks on a turbo that isnt what you want in the long run. Then if you do want bigger power later then you can just throw a twisted adaptor and holset on.

[hunter951]

 evowrx said:

From what youre saying if you bought a setup like the on with the vf36 you would bolt it on. Point im making is its a senseless spend better off throwing a cheap vf with a 50 buck p25 saves you 3-400 odd bucks on a turbo that isnt what you want in the long run. Then if you do want bigger power later then you can just throw a twisted adaptor and holset on.

your meaning T/S though? i understand what you mean though, what alternatives are there over a vf36? i dont see how getting a hybrid made would be any cheaper?

Edited October 25, 2015 by hunter951

[Guest]

 hunter951 said:

your meaning T/S though? i understand what you mean though, what alternatives are there over a vf36?

Yep. Anything that runs a bb p18 or p20 housing will interchange with the p25 vf36 housing. So a vf22, 23, 24, 28, 29, 34 can interchange between any of the 3 housings. The p25 housings pop up for 50-60 buck and ss vf anywhere from 100-400 dependant on how cheerful the seller is. Then when you upgrade you sell off the vf in the ss housing and sell the p25 and lose nothing.

[hunter951]

 evowrx said:

Yep. Anything that runs a bb p18 or p20 housing will interchange with the p25 vf36 housing. So a vf22, 23, 24, 28, 29, 34 can interchange between any of the 3 housings. The p25 housings pop up for 50-60 buck and ss vf anywhere from 100-400 dependant on how cheerful the seller is. Then when you upgrade you sell off the vf in the ss housing and sell the p25 and lose nothing.

ahhh i got ya now!!! makes lots of sense. cheers for the info! now to start getting everything...

[hunter951]

Bump, so iv been talking to a few mates about legacy vs v8 sti headers and im thinking legacy headers would reduce lag and improve throttle response etc due to running smaller id runners 36mm (sti 38mm)... does anyone know at what power level the legacy header would chock at....or personal experience... I aim at 300ish wkw on future engine with a gtx3071 or simlar. just trying to get all the nuts n bolts worked out on what i need to start hoarding. legacy heards are real common and cheap....

[gotasuby]

I was running legacy sump, baffle plate and headers with my hx35 holset. Eg bp wasn't any higher than Josh on the sti headers. For 300wkw they are plenty big enough. The T3 twin scroll flange is perfect fit for 2x 38mm pipes to. Also the sumps and baffle plates are different internally from sti

[Guest]

Talking to murch he recommended the smaller header for hrc35/2 as holset like velocity. Other turbos not so much. Have to remember the volume of the headers is huge compared to most car setups so we can get away with smaller runners if the hotside allows.

Did you test egbp jase or just from a tuners perspective you could see the effects?

[gotasuby]

Tested eg bp. Also from tuners perspective but it's a little hard sometimes with the 2.5 being det prone. Yes it depends on the turbo. IMHO if you running T3 twin scroll go legacy. T4 go sti

[Guest]

Good info. Your 2.5 had matched combustion chambers didnt it? What was the hx35 7 blade 12cm?

[boon]

 evowrx said:

Talking to murch he recommended the smaller header for hrc35/2 as holset like velocity. Other turbos not so much. Have to remember the volume of the headers is huge compared to most car setups so we can get away with smaller runners if the hotside allows.

Did you test egbp jase or just from a tuners perspective you could see the effects?

Holset turbine wheels are designed for diesel exhausts, which are slow and cold. That's why a turbo designed for a 5.9L diesel works well on a 2.0 petrol.

[Guest]

 boon said:

Holset turbine wheels are designed for diesel exhausts, which are slow and cold. That's why a turbo designed for a 5.9L diesel works well on a 2.0 petrol.

Yep. Funny thig is td series from mhi come from the same application but dont seem to have it like holset do.

[gotasuby]

Mine had smoothed Chambers. Not fully machined out. And it was a hx35 7 blade 16cm as the 12cm I first had spooled too early haha. Full boost 27psi by 2300rpm.16cm was 2800rpm.

[Andy_Mac]

What the bejesus kind of engine is that on to spool that quick? E85?

[Guest]

 Andy_Mac said:

What the bejesus kind of engine is that on to spool that quick? E85?

2.5, avcs, twin scroll, holset = winning. Meth as well for higher boost tune iirc.

[hunter951]

 gotasuby said:

I was running legacy sump, baffle plate and headers with my hx35 holset. Eg bp wasn't any higher than Josh on the sti headers. For 300wkw they are plenty big enough. The T3 twin scroll flange is perfect fit for 2x 38mm pipes to. Also the sumps and baffle plates are different internally from sti

hmm that sounds pretty good!!! think ill get a set then... i have a t/s sti sump, baffle and pick up just need dip stick and tube. needa finish uni before it all happens though... cheer for info man