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Andy_Mac

Legacy BL/BP piggyback LINK ECU Install

28 posts in this topic

Getting to the serious end of how i'm actually going to do this after mucking around putting it off for years so figure i'd chuck my thoughts up so those of you more familiar with aftermarket ECU's can potentially set me right.

 

Have been slowly going through wiring diagrams and confirming wire colours/pin locations against my car at the ECU, Engine bay connector and plugs themselves since Subaru didn't bother to keep the colours the same at the Engine bay connector.

 

At this point my main concern is deciding what the Link is going to have for it's inputs and outputs.

The aim is to 'try' do a tidy job similar to what @gotasuby has done with an in-between loom where some wires go straight through to the stock ECU, some to both and some only to the Link. Have got a spare ECU and ECU loom with plugs to do this.

I'm aiming to have most inputs still going back to the stock ECU as well as the required ones going to the Link so that the tablet running BTSSM will still function off the OBD2 port.

Later on down the track i'm going to look into using the SI-Drive knob as a map switcher but want to keep things simple for now.

 

This list is a starting point so i'm sure there will be a few things I haven't thought of.

 

Inputs

Crank position

Knock

Coolant temp

Oil pressure switch - stock one?

Oil temp

TPS - part of e-throttle?

MAP - seperate, link only maybe?

RPM

Cam positions x 4

 

Outputs

Injectors x4

Coils x4

E-throttle

OCV x4

Boost solenoid

Fuel pump control - maybe?

 

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I am kinda also in the same boat. I had a chat with Chris from prestige few months ago and he had done a sedan legacy with link g4 and that was a full ecu replaced. He had 1 cell error which came up on the dash but knows what to do to clear it. So maybe have a chat with him? Cause him and nzefi decoded the canbus system and even got the factory key immobilizer to work with the link.

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Was talking to Tony about that one a few weeks back. From what he said there was still quite a few things that needed to be decoded so wasn't a fully working install yet. Engine stuff was all sorted but some of the dash and bits like that weren’t.

Plus that one was prefacelift where mine is a facelift which seems to add a bit more complexity.

Would rather not be the guinea pig footing the bill for that kind of experimental/investigational work since it could very easily blow out spectacularly.

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1 hour ago, Andy_Mac said:

Getting to the serious end of how i'm actually going to do this after mucking around putting it off for years so figure i'd chuck my thoughts up so those of you more familiar with aftermarket ECU's can potentially set me right.

 

Have been slowly going through wiring diagrams and confirming wire colours/pin locations against my car at the ECU, Engine bay connector and plugs themselves since Subaru didn't bother to keep the colours the same at the Engine bay connector.

 

At this point my main concern is deciding what the Link is going to have for it's inputs and outputs.

The aim is to 'try' do a tidy job similar to what @gotasuby has done with an in-between loom where some wires go straight through to the stock ECU, some to both and some only to the Link. Have got a spare ECU and ECU loom with plugs to do this.

I'm aiming to have most inputs still going back to the stock ECU as well as the required ones going to the Link so that the tablet running BTSSM will still function off the OBD2 port.

Later on down the track i'm going to look into using the SI-Drive knob as a map switcher but want to keep things simple for now.

 

This list is a starting point so i'm sure there will be a few things I haven't thought of.

 

Inputs

Crank position

Knock

Coolant temp

Oil pressure switch - stock one?

Oil temp

TPS - part of e-throttle?

MAP - seperate, link only maybe?

RPM

Cam positions x 4

 

Outputs

Injectors x4

Coils x4

E-throttle

OCV x4

Boost solenoid

Fuel pump control - maybe?

 

You want both ecus to share 

-crank

-cams

-tps1

-tps2

-aps1

-aps2

-ect

-iat

-map

-knock

-speed (this one's needs to come from expansion plug above throttle peddle) 

 

 

Link only to control

-avcs solinoids

-e throttle Motor

-injectors 

-coils

-boost control

 

Factory ecu can keep looking after 

-tacho

-fans

-starter control (link controls mine and is now push button start) 

-purge solinoid 

-CEL

 

Would get rid of all o2 sensors and fit a can lambda. 

 

Fuel pump can be either but need to remap ecu to get rid of codes and also run fuel pump 100% all the time as defaults to only 33% if it has injector faults. Or get link to control. 

 

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I can understand the appeal of going to a aftermarket ecu,but is it possible that most open source tuners don’t have a full understanding/can’t be bothered with the canbus Legacy 2.0 ecu.MRT have had success with Ecutek in Oz and Cobb in USA with canbus 2.5 Legacy’s.They seem to be unlocking new features on a ongoing basis.If you are going to go to a 2.5 engine wouldn’t it maybe better to go to a 2.5 Legacy and reap the benefits of the USA aftermarket parts and Ecutek,Cobb support or reloom your car with a 2.5 ecu,loom and do your 2.5 engine build with correct heads.Either way,lots of time,money or frustration.Haltech do a plug in ecu for the pre facelift Legacy,maybe talk to them.

Edited by Dre

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why not use the remapped stock ecu fully for the setup - sorry not up to speed with the build but unless you have some huge power needs that cant be controlled, the stock ecu' s seem pretty good these days...

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12 hours ago, Andy_Mac said:

Was talking to Tony about that one a few weeks back. From what he said there was still quite a few things that needed to be decoded so wasn't a fully working install yet. Engine stuff was all sorted but some of the dash and bits like that weren’t.

Plus that one was prefacelift where mine is a facelift which seems to add a bit more complexity.

Would rather not be the guinea pig footing the bill for that kind of experimental/investigational work since it could very easily blow out spectacularly.

Ah yeap, it was for a pre-face lift model. Subscribing to this thread!

 

58 minutes ago, Pappu1 said:

why not use the remapped stock ecu fully for the setup - sorry not up to speed with the build but unless you have some huge power needs that cant be controlled, the stock ecu' s seem pretty good these days...

Because Andy's ECU is all kinds of f..... and he is planning to go the hx35 way as well. And to be honest the factory ecu is only good for so much, link makes the tuning job so much easier and so much more consistent and also allows for fail safes to be in place.

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1 hour ago, sleepr said:

Ah yeap, it was for a pre-face lift model. Subscribing to this thread!

 

Because Andy's ECU is all kinds of f..... and he is planning to go the hx35 way as well. And to be honest the factory ecu is only good for so much, link makes the tuning job so much easier and so much more consistent and also allows for fail safes to be in place.

 

i know of a 270kw BP legacy that had a similar turbo in not better.. on stock ecu

yep link does have a good feature set  - agreed on that

still dont see the point of spending all that money and time making a link work when a properly tuned stock ecu will do the same sorta job.

 

we have done hx40 on stock ecu as an example..

 

not saying to not use link at all - just that questioning every mod is a good way of making sure you get the best items in place and nothing thats not needed... so more like whats the actual justification for the link here?

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7 minutes ago, Pappu1 said:

 

i know of a 270kw BP legacy that had a similar turbo in not better.. on stock ecu

yep link does have a good feature set  - agreed on that

still dont see the point of spending all that money and time making a link work when a properly tuned stock ecu will do the same sorta job.

 

we have done hx40 on stock ecu as an example..

 

not saying to not use link at all - just that questioning every mod is a good way of making sure you get the best items in place and nothing thats not needed... so more like whats the actual justification for the link here?

 

The justification in my case is that none of the tuners that have had a go on it can get it to do what it is supposed to. Some parameters can be changed but others when changed have no effect. Supposedly there is an issue with the def file for my ECU with the open source programs. Have also tried ECUEdit which didn't make things any better either. 

If the ECU did as it should i’d happily stay stock.

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4 hours ago, Dre said:

I can understand the appeal of going to a aftermarket ecu,but is it possible that most open source tuners don’t have a full understanding/can’t be bothered with the canbus Legacy 2.0 ecu.MRT have had success with Ecutek in Oz and Cobb in USA with canbus 2.5 Legacy’s.They seem to be unlocking new features on a ongoing basis.If you are going to go to a 2.5 engine wouldn’t it maybe better to go to a 2.5 Legacy and reap the benefits of the USA aftermarket parts and Ecutek,Cobb support or reloom your car with a 2.5 ecu,loom and do your 2.5 engine build with correct heads.Either way,lots of time,money or frustration.Haltech do a plug in ecu for the pre facelift Legacy,maybe talk to them.

 

Others have had perfect results with other facelift ECU’s so it seems to be just mine that's a dog. Could try a different year ECU but that's also a lot of effort to get sorted. ECUTEK software might resolve things but again it’s another 50/50 call that might backfire.

The US ECU wouldn't be any good as it doesn't allow for DAVCS which I plan on keeping. 

Asked Haltech a while back and they said they have no plan to do anything with the facelift model at this time.

 

I feel i’ve exhausted all other avenue’s to sort this at this point really.

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Any way to tell from the ecu if it is facelift or not? I've got a bp ecu at home that is of no use to me.

 

Edit: if you did wanted to try another, I've got no clue about unlocking or flashing etc and how hard it would be to copy the tune over.

Edited by pl0x
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15 hours ago, gotasuby said:

You want both ecus to share 

-crank

-cams

-tps1

-tps2

-aps1

-aps2

-ect

-iat

-map

-knock

-speed (this one's needs to come from expansion plug above throttle peddle) 

 

 

Link only to control

-avcs solinoids

-e throttle Motor

-injectors 

-coils

-boost control

 

Factory ecu can keep looking after 

-tacho

-fans

-starter control (link controls mine and is now push button start) 

-purge solinoid 

-CEL

 

Would get rid of all o2 sensors and fit a can lambda. 

 

Fuel pump can be either but need to remap ecu to get rid of codes and also run fuel pump 100% all the time as defaults to only 33% if it has injector faults. Or get link to control. 

 

 

Cool. Cheers for that.

Any reason to get the separate can lambda over a Fury with built in o2 functionality? Looks to be cheaper going that way than the separate module

 

18 minutes ago, pl0x said:

Any way to tell from the ecu if it is facelift or not? I've got a bp ecu at home that is of no use to me.

 

Edit: if you did wanted to try another, I've got no clue about unlocking or flashing etc and how hard it would be to copy the tune over.

 

What's the Denso part number on your one? 

Main issue is needing to get ECU’s coded to the immobilizer and all that which isn't all that cheap either

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39 minutes ago, Andy_Mac said:

 

The justification in my case is that none of the tuners that have had a go on it can get it to do what it is supposed to. Some parameters can be changed but others when changed have no effect. Supposedly there is an issue with the def file for my ECU with the open source programs. Have also tried ECUEdit which didn't make things any better either. 

If the ECU did as it should i’d happily stay stock.

 

what area you are in?

im in no way saying this has not been done before but just curious what was the issue they faced with the stock ecu specifically

 

we have done a fair few davcs legacy in that year range so should be something we can try out .. but then again somethings are not meat to be like 5 speeds and 300kw :(

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33 minutes ago, Andy_Mac said:

What's the Denso part number on your one? 

Main issue is needing to get ECU’s coded to the immobilizer and all that which isn't all that cheap either

I'll have a look tonight

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29 minutes ago, Pappu1 said:

 

what area you are in?

im in no way saying this has not been done before but just curious what was the issue they faced with the stock ecu specifically

 

we have done a fair few davcs legacy in that year range so should be something we can try out .. but then again somethings are not meat to be like 5 speeds and 300kw :(

 

I'm down in Tauranga so not too far.

 

No control of boost was the main issue. Nothing you could do ever changed how it behaved in any way. 

Logging WGDC shows it consistently wanting 30+ percent from under 3k even when at a couple of PSI which i’m thinking is why it's so slow to spool. No changes to any tables help resolve this at all. The first tuner concluded the def was pointing to incorrect tables 

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There’s a nice Aussie new Legacy face lift 2.5 sti sedan on Tm for a lazy $26000 with your name on it.

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3 hours ago, Andy_Mac said:

 

Cool. Cheers for that.

Any reason to get the separate can lambda over a Fury with built in o2 functionality? Looks to be cheaper going that way than the separate module

 

 

What's the Denso part number on your one? 

Main issue is needing to get ECU’s coded to the immobilizer and all that which isn't all that cheap either

A fury would be good as well. Seperate was only if you didn't have lambda in built. Have you tried a seperate boost controller if that's only issue you are having? 

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3 hours ago, gotasuby said:

A fury would be good as well. Seperate was only if you didn't have lambda in built. Have you tried a seperate boost controller if that's only issue you are having? 

 

Xtreme or Fury seem to be the ones to go for for e-throttle with Fury being only $250 more on the NZEFI site so seems like a no-brainer.

 

It had crossed my mind but unsure if there is anything else that isn't controllable which just hasn't cropped up due to the boost control issues.

 

To be frank I'm just completely over the issues around the stock ECU.

Stock one's are fine until issues like this arise and then the people fully clued up are few and far between, with support from software developers being virtually nonexistent.

I could spend some serious time and money testing and playing around with different hardware and maybe in the end get a positive result or just fork out a decent chunk now and never have any issues again. 

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Give David from TuneTechnic a call.Very knowledgeable guy.Does a lot of ecu work for other workshops.Unlocked my previous tune which I’ve been told is not an easy job.

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8 hours ago, Dre said:

Give David from TuneTechnic a call.Very knowledgeable guy.Does a lot of ecu work for other workshops.Unlocked my previous tune which I’ve been told is not an easy job.

 

One of the previous tuners was Aussie Matt/Kido tune. He’s well known for being the guy who can do whatever you ask, does some cool S***, just not in a timely fashion.

He does know his S*** backwards and was the one that pinpointed the problem, tried coding in new tables and whatnot just never managed to fully solve it.

 

I really have just given up on the idea at this point and am just keen to get a Link and let it be a thing of the past. 

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Have given up on the intermediate loom at this point. Will just be too complex and time consuming. Plus kinda made a mess of the spare ECU connectors in the trial and error phase and can't be bothered tracking down another.

New plan is to just cut wires and extend where needed and if I ever sell and pull the Link back out there will just be some joins in the original loom.

Unless Tony has some luck with a few other avenues he’s looking into.

 

The good news is a managed to score an engine/ECU wiring list for my exact car which has confirmed the info I've got already and made clear a few niggly parts which the other wiring diagrams didn't touch on.

 

Going through it all I can't see any reason to need to wire shields to the Link and will keep them going to the stock ECU which will save a decent amount of wiring.

Unless someone can think of a reason why that would not be the way to do it?

 

Grounds and sensor grounds and whatnot are another one i’m not fully sure on yet but may come up with an idea for them still

 

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i dont knoiw but might be something specific to your BL.. a few i did seemed to respond ok to what boost we aimed to ..

anyway how abt a EBC and that way no need to do the link swap?

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10 hours ago, Andy_Mac said:

Going through it all I can't see any reason to need to wire shields to the Link and will keep them going to the stock ECU which will save a decent amount of wiring.

Unless someone can think of a reason why that would not be the way to do it?

 

Grounds and sensor grounds and whatnot are another one i’m not fully sure on yet but may come up with an idea for them still

 

From memory, assuming the factory ecu still has ground then yea you shouldn't need to rewire the shields.

 

I would have thought you will need to wire the sensor grounds to the link, but shouldn't be much different from cutting and joining any of the other wires?

And you could just tap the link ground into the factory ecu ground wire, maybe add an extra ground point near the ecu's somewhere, I can't see any issues with them sharing grounds.

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1 hour ago, Pappu1 said:

i dont knoiw but might be something specific to your BL.. a few i did seemed to respond ok to what boost we aimed to ..

anyway how abt a EBC and that way no need to do the link swap?

 

Have seen multiple others behave perfectly too. It's purely because my ECU has an experimental def that never got physically checked so certain things don't work correctly. 

Thought about trying the EBC route but the ease of use, functionality, and support of Link makes the swap worthwhile to me. With the costs already incurred trying to sort out this stock ECU I could probably have gone link at the start and been at the same financial point I'm at now. 

It all boils down to me having a bit of a sour taste in my mouth towards the stock ECU and the lack of support that comes with it. I’ll never be truly confident the stock ECU is going to do what I want.

 

26 minutes ago, pl0x said:

From memory, assuming the factory ecu still has ground then yea you shouldn't need to rewire the shields.

 

I would have thought you will need to wire the sensor grounds to the link, but shouldn't be much different from cutting and joining any of the other wires?

And you could just tap the link ground into the factory ecu ground wire, maybe add an extra ground point near the ecu's somewhere, I can't see any issues with them sharing grounds.

 

That's what I was thinking. Yea everything except certain outputs are still going to be attached to the stock ECU

 

Definitely wiring grounds to the Link, just hadn't sorted out groupings and whether certain sensors need individual grounds. Just the way some grounds are set out separately in the wiring list makes me wonder if they need to be separated.

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Posted (edited)

Ahh I see, I'm not/wasn't aware of any requirement to group or wire sensors grounds individually, but probably just check with Tony and co. What wiring list is it?

 

I could have lucked it both times I've wired my cars, the fury had 4 ground outs so I just randomly grouped sensors into them.

 

Edit: Looks like no issues grouping: http://forums.linkecu.com/topic/5655-sensor-grounds-and-5-volt-splicing/

Edited by pl0x

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