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logan25

Engine Knock reported BTSSM

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Just got a BL 2006 tuned by STi model, 6 speed manual, EJ20Y. 

 

- Ran on 95 initially, got the BTSSM app hooked up, noticed engine knock at low RPMs.

- Filled up with 100 octane today, reset ECU and did quick run, still get engine knock. 

 

Links below for details:

Knock events on 95 fuel: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-d2BgXzuTDOOPwHduEjMc8y5mdBR1t9M/view?usp=sharing

Knock events on 100 fuel: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-pNRjlXbDdO61WYTyV3IElUazhmMfjdw/view?usp=sharing

Log view with 100 fuel: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-pzuYm4-QHONOmBlgDmZ1rujqbL0SkDE/view?usp=sharing

Log view with 95 fuel: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-Ns4zEyVP72-qL7Pp1govGSzdVmAO4Vm/view?usp=sharing

Learning view with 95 fuel: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vCxpisQ2FCXJWY5f4n9IghRRhFFtv1_P/view?usp=sharing

Learning view with 100 fuel: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-mZ64m3eTmmjmw7JPLiLdJW45E0jXCK_/view?usp=sharing

 

It does look like the car is definitely tuned for 100 rather than 95, however still getting Knock?

 

Note, with 95 fuel the IAM started at 1, then decreased to the 0.3's, upon resetting ECU with 100 fuel, started at 0.5, increased to 0.6, now sitting at 0.8. 

 

Engine knock seems to be at the low RPMs, 

Am going to get this tuned via cyro however waiting to do cambelt and waterpump, in the mean time if anyone could possible take a look at the logs and see if anything is majorly off would be great!

 

Thanks

 

Edit: Also if any help, the car has a tiny hesitation at around 2,900 RPM when in 1st and 2nd gear, every other time its perfect.

Edited by logan25

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Ooooohhhhh very interesting. Have you paid Dave yet? 

 

If you are comfortable, could you pull your ROM and send it to me. I'd like to make a few changes then get you to flash it and drive around a bit, mainly around boost control, will be safe changes with lower limits than stock.

 

That is the same ECU ID as mine which Cryo could not tune properly as the tables the definition points to are not the tables the ECU reads so changes make zero difference. I'd be very very interested to see if it was something weird with mine or actually the incorrect definition as I have always suspected. 

 

The way around this is to flash a base map from another car and carry over all data from your map to that one. Extremely time consuming if already tuned but most tables should be the same for a stock tune. I eventually found a ROM that worked and successfully tuned mine. Peaking at 21ish psi and made an estimated 200wkw+

 

The stock tune from Japan is for 100. How long after resetting is the 100 LV? It looks like a lot of the figures haven't had enough time to settle on their correct numbers yet.

 

Based on the fuel correction figures in the 95 LV you've got an intake leak somewhere which you'll want to fix before going any further. 

A 3-port solenoid also works well on these but you need to let Dave know if you get one so he can modify the boost tables.

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9 minutes ago, Andy_Mac said:

Ooooohhhhh very interesting. Have you paid Dave yet? 

 

If you are comfortable, could you pull your ROM and send it to me. I'd like to make a few changes then get you to flash it and drive around a bit, mainly around boost control, will be safe changes with lower limits than stock.

 

That is the same ECU ID as mine which Cryo could not tune properly as the tables the definition points to are not the tables the ECU reads so changes make zero difference. I'd be very very interested to see if it was something weird with mine or actually the incorrect definition as I have always suspected. 

 

The way around this is to flash a base map from another car and carry over all data from your map to that one. Extremely time consuming if already tuned but most tables should be the same for a stock tune. I eventually found a ROM that worked and successfully tuned mine. Peaking at 21ish psi and made an estimated 200wkw+

 

The stock tune from Japan is for 100. How long after resetting is the 100 LV? It looks like a lot of the figures haven't had enough time to settle on their correct numbers yet.

 

Based on the fuel correction figures in the 95 LV you've got an intake leak somewhere which you'll want to fix before going any further. 

A 3-port solenoid also works well on these but you need to let Dave know if you get one so he can modify the boost tables.

 

The first learning view was around 10 minutes after reset. Have driven the car for a further 15-20minutes and now have this updated LV table: 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-wKYwLTxkJenx2QbA6IQO05V3x7yUNi0/view?usp=drivesdk

 

Haven’t paid Dave yet, only emailed him seeing if he could tune this model since it was the ‘Tuned by STi’ model, although I thought the ECU was the same as the stock Legacy GT. 

 

I am happy to pull the ROM from the car, will do at the weekend when I figure out how to use the tactrix cable, happy to try modifications you think would improve it. 

 

Thanks 

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Give it another day and see if the fuel trims change again. Has the car got the factory intake?

 

Yea your ECU is the same as the standard 06 Legacy Spec B 6MT which is what mine is.

 

The tactrix is fairly simple. PM me your email and I'll send you some of the files and info I've collected for all this. You need to add a separate def file for this ECU as it is still in experimental status so isn't included as standard.

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Yeah intake system is all factory, will go over it this weekend and tighten all the clamps etc, will use Daves guide for where to look. Have another intercooler and essentially complete system which can swap over parts with (from 06 Auto transmission model). 

This is the log from the most recent trip with 100 octane fuel:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10-mO1U3aLuL8k3WBr1YSCx8JQ1KPtrmL/view?usp=drivesdk

I see there are correction figures from halfway down. That still indicates intake leak?

 

Have PM’d email,

 

Thanks

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Yea those figures will never be perfect but there definitely is something not quite right there. Fuel correct will always jump around a bit but fuel learn should stay at zero at all points if there is no problems.

 

Side tip, BTSSM sometimes messes up file types when saving so some logs will be saved as .txt which doesn't work, but all you need to do is change the file type to .csv and it behaves as it should.

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Have replaced the intercooler and associated seals in an attempt to try stop this vaccum/intake leak. Reset ECU, the IAM has now established and stabilized at 1, but still shows signs of intake leak with the fuel correction figures.

 

Log: https://drive.google.com/file/d/11MJE449cPfEpa06btnRLADrA0PBaGuyU/view?usp=drivesdk

I notice that when off the throttle (0%), fuel learn figures jump into negative values bigtime and then the AFR goes up to 20. It seems that it only happens with nil throttle. 

LV: 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11RtgIaK1c_T24V0JaAN46Q_6PRBwaL11/view?usp=drivesdk

 

I have inspected around at the various vaccum lines and cant find any loose ends. The fact that it is a negative value, I assume that is removing fuel? So air is lost, so probably leak post turbo? 

 

 

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Also as an update: looking at the logs it appears the only time the fuel learning figures drop into the big negative is the moment after using the throttle at reasonable levels. 

Sort of like this:

Put foot down, mixture richens as it should to around 12, no fuel learn.

Back off from throttle, mixture leans to around 20, negative fuel learn values show. 

Throttle re-applied, normal values and mixture back to 14.9.

 

Issues with the factory blow off valve? Dumping to much air to account for with mixture? As far as I can tell it is this reason the LV gives such negative values, as otherwise it seems within normal limits. 

 

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Hitting 20 when off the throttle is normal.

 

I still think there is another leak somewhere too. You logic of it being post turbo was what I was thinking too, isn't a guarantee though. The quickest and easiest way is to do a proper pressurised leak check or smoke test. There is a lot of stuff going on in these cars so finding it by trial and error will take forever.

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Attempted my own boost leak test, couldn't find anything. Think its best to get it done properly/smoke tested. 

 

Can anyone recommend where to get this done in Christchurch? Have contacted Crowesport, await their reply, any other places to look at?

 

Thanks

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Have had the boost leak test done properly, no leaks evident. They also concluded fuel trims were out of whack, particularly the fuel learn sitting at its large negative value, and fuel correction not doing much. 

Have replaced the O2 sensor with another cars, still same story. Might need to get a new one? Will keep trying at it...

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Could also be a gummed up injector not closing fully. That would have the biggest effect at idle where the duty cycle is extremely low. 

 

The only other thing it may be is the scaling has been changed.

May have had a tune in Japan for a different intake and then had the stock one chucked back on when sold in NZ. I should have time to check it tonight against a known stock scaling.

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Scaling is stock. Interestingly the tune runs half a psi less from halfway in the revs than the standard 07 equivalent.

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Thanks for checking. Is that psi difference the same for the 06 stock model? 

Got some injector cleaner, never really used so unsure how well it works. Have mixed with fuel and will monitor. Can pull the injectors at the weekend and inspect/swap with some from an EJ20X with lower kms. 

 

Edited by logan25

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Yea same as yours. Really thought the tbsti models had a slightly more aggressive tune as well but guess it was just handling/trim changes.

 

It's a pretty painful task doing injectors but might be worthwhile. Have you cleaned the MAF sensor? What kind of filter does the intake have? 

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From memory I think the austalian model tbsti did have a little bit difference in the ECU adding a few KW. These JDM ones should be stock standard. 

 

Have cleaned the MAF sensor, have used another one as well. Cleaned entire intake area as well. Previous owner had a new airfilter put on, looks like the standard OEM one. 

Have used the CRC intake cleaner today, will see if that makes any difference. 

 

Trying to relate this to if its maybe causing the slight stutter/hesitation at light throttle which occurs at exactly 2,800rpm in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear. 

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That'll be what I was thinking of then I knew one of them advertised a STI tune as well.

 

That's the classic hesitation most of us have had. The easy fix is to swap the vac lines for the BPV and the fuel pressure reg so that the reg gets it’s source from the centre of the manifold and the BPV can use the one on the cylinder 4 runner. The one by cylinder 4 fluctuates a bit with valves opening and closing constantly so moving the vac reference to the centre seems to help the situation sometimes.

 

This article mentions it can cause AF correction one to be off but towards positive rather than negative like yours is.

 

https://www.cobbtuning.com/2008-sti-fuel-pressure-regulator-kit-update-technical-overview/

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So figured to make it work, the line coming off the FPR is 3/16 (5mm), and the line coming off the BPV is 5/16 (8mm). I assume it would be best to T the 5/16 hose coming from the BPV and find a connector with these measurements for that:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/8mm-Hose-Barb-x-5mm-Hose-Barb-x-8mm-Hose-Barb-Tee-Brass-Barbed-Tube-Pipe/32818405836.html

Then just cap up the Cylinder 4 port as its in an awkward spot. 

Anyone know of any local places to find these T connectors? Only ones I can find for the likes of repco are all 8mm connectors etc. 

 

Edit: See supercheap and mitre10 mega do assorted connections, might check in store. Plan is to get plastic adapter like above, and run the 5mm hose to the FPR

Edited by logan25

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Ahh that probably worked for me as I've got an aftermarket BPV which must have a smaller barb.

 

Usually some near boiling water is enough to soften the tube and it'll stretch pretty well.

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That was a straight forward fix for the stutter problem.

 

For those doing it in future: I used the following

 

-3/16” Fuel/Vacuum hose (only need like 20cm). Supercheap auto

- T connector (https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/champion-hose-connector-reducing-t-piece-8-6-8mm-polymide-6/p/226534)

- 6mm Vacuum caps.

 

Instead of using the Cylinder 4 source again, I capped it off using the vaccum caps and cable tied: 2iZFW7v.jpg

 

Then from the BPV I cut into the line, inserted the T connector, joined the original lines to it (is a real squeeze but do-able with hot water and rubber grease), and then attached the new 3/16” hose to it:

mhTJzm1.jpg

 

Then with the other end of the 3/16” hose, attach it to the FPR:

 

co4zxVX.jpg

 

All new connections I did were either cable tied or hose clamped. Will see if the mitre 10 mega T connector holds up to the job.

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You refering to the oil residue on the manifold area with the plugged cap on cylinder 4? I did replace the intercooler last week but still have the negative values. 

 

When I get back from a holiday in a few weeks might need to take the whole top manifold off and replace the seals as the subaru tech did mention quite a lot of oil residue there as well. Might change over the injectors while im there as well. 

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