Front end shuddering

[wildturkey]

'89 RS leggy........ok appreciate any help on this one. I have noticed prolly in the last 6 weeks that I get shuddering in the front ......firstly noticeable on taking off in first gear as the clutch engages......and then even more apparent under braking......not too hard braking but definitely shuddering and vibration in the whole front end. If it was coming from any particular side I would say passenger side.

After fitting a rear sway bar last weekend I took it for a good blat in the hills. Some heavy braking and tight cornering later.......I came down on to the flat and started working up to 100ks. As I braked, the shuddering from the front was quite violent so I eased off the brakes but still noticed it was vibrating.....felt almost like the tyre had a bump in it.....but it doesn't.

I thought I might have warped my discs so I got them skimmed put them back on and went for a light cruise..........still have the same prob. It's been suggested my wheel alignment could be out and that is a possibility so I will look at getting this done too........process of elimination I guess. When I had the discs off I checked the steering arms etc couldn't see anything out of the ordinary but I did notice the ball joint on the passenger side lower arm had split the rubber cover quite badly and grease had been oozing out.

Could this be the source of my problems? Do these joints (ball joints?) fark out like CVs and need replacing and repacking with grease? Should I spend $$ getn the wheel alignment done in the hope that it's just that.....or tackle the lower arm ball joint thing.....then do the alignment? Any1 else had similar prob? Any advice would be great...cheers :-) ........and here's some pics for ya

[Guest boostcut]

have a look at lower arm inner bushes... under braking these can flex alot and the wheel moves back and foward and can cause these symptoms

[wildturkey]

 boostcut said:

have a look at lower arm inner bushes... under braking these can flex alot and the wheel moves back and foward and can cause these symptoms

do u mean the big bushes at the other end of the arm?..........I have replaced those with nolathane ones but I will check them out again

[Guest boostcut]

yeah could be the front bushes too....

[Guest]

Worn shocks can cause this and while your there check engine mounts

[wildturkey]

 CUDDAS said:

Hi there, do you feel it through the steering wheel while braking, If so have your rotor's machined (lathed) & replace your pads, check your wheel bearing's ect. OR do you feel it thru your bum in the seat "don't laugh" this tend's to be be the rear brake's ect, If it continues through the steering wheel & not under any braking , have someone who "know's" check your front control arm bushes, even your engine & gearbox mount's driveshaft bolts ect. could be at fault.

Hey cheers for the advice just going thru process of elimination........it's not discs I got them skimmed..........it's not wheel alignment I had it it checked. So next I will check all the bushes........and I will be replacing that ball joint as well. Yes.....I feel it when I'm braking but I also feel it sometimes when I'm not braking............for example when I've done a few hard corners up in the hills and then come down on to the flat. Sometimes it feels like a thump thump thump as the wheel is going round.....almost as if the wheel had a bubble in it......it doesn't I checked them.

The problem is intermittent.......it's not there all the time.........i could be cruizing along at 100 ks and it might start......or I mite brake and it will set it off. Yes I can feel it in the steering as well when it happens

How do I check wheel bearings?

[BC5RA]

Jack up one end of the car, and yank 3 and 9 o'clock and then 12 and 6 if there's play you could be in for new wheel bearing's.

[Guest]

i get the same shake, not that violent, will be following this thread and doing a process of elimination too, keep us posted

that ball joint don't too look healthy

[wildturkey]

 BC5RA said:

Jack up one end of the car, and yank 3 and 9 o'clock and then 12 and 6 if there's play you could be in for new wheel bearing's.

yep I did that BC.........minimal play in the 9 and 3 oclock..........maybe 1mm and that play seemed to be where the steering arm goes into the steering rack? (somewhere in the middle of the car).....the play wasn't at the hub anyway...........and no play in the 12 and 6 oclock

[wildturkey]

 gen11990 said:

i get the same shake, not that violent, will be following this thread and doing a process of elimination too, keep us posted

that ball joint don't too look healthy

I scored new ball joint unit off TM $40 incl postage

[wildturkey]

 kwikkiwi said:

Worn shocks can cause this and while your there check engine mounts

cheers.........i jacked it up and looked at engine mounts but what exactly am I looking for?

[wildturkey]

 CUDDAS said:

Hi there in the engine mount you are looking for seperation or cracking in the rubber, there is a metal plate either side of the rubber, like a sandwich, "if you like", you can place a jack & put a little pressure on eathier side of the engine, if it's not to clear to see.

ok cheers will have a closer look

[wildturkey]

ok a bit of an update......first of all.......I learnt something I thought I'd share just in case ur thinking u might have a wheel bearing prob. After jacking the car up and doing the old 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock test for a mashed wheel bearing......(and then the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock) I couldn't notice any movement at all...none.

What I was told by a wrecker mate though .....is that if your wheel nut is still done up tight the test won't work (except where the wheel bearing is EXTREMELY farkd). So i took the wheel off and loosened the wheel nut and that's when I could feel movement in the bearing......quite a bit of movement. So wheel bearings being quite $$$.........i just replaced the whole hub with one that had a good bearing in it.......and slapped in a new bottom arm ball joint while I was at it........here's the kicker though.........I still have the vibration problem!! lol

so after a short run we noticed that the passenger side brake disc was extremely hot compared to the other one so we're thinking one of the pots in the caliper (or both of them) isn't retracting.......so my next mish is to replace the caliper........or recondition it

I checked the engine mounts they are all good

I also checked the lower arm bushes they are all good

[DRFVDR]

never listen to a wrecker for mechanincal info

of course there will be movement if u undo the axle nut

[wildturkey]

 DRFVDR said:

never listen to a wrecker for mechanincal info

of course there will be movement if u undo the axle nut

cheers.......i dont really agree with the "never listen to a wrecker" line......I've had good advice from this one in the past and have no reason to doubt him yet. There also happened to be a mechanic there who agreed that unless the axle nut is loosened you will not get an accurate sense of play in the hub......but hey sweet as. I took the hub right off anyway and could feel the movement by grabbing it and rocking it side to side with one hand. We compared it to one he had there which was absolutely stuffed....and it had about the same range of movement...........now that range of movement was well outside acceptable tolerances but was undetectable with the wheel nut done up......

[wildturkey]

 CUDDAS said:

hope it wasn't the disc rotor movement as the wheel hold's it to the hub, check that your cv 32mm nut is tight reel tight, & for the caliper check the dust boot's around the piston for splits, get some rubber grease & grease slider pins, push pistons in & pump them back out to free them up, if you need excess force to push them in they will need a re-co, get some 1200 grit sandpaper & clean up the piston, check piston for pitting, replace seal's ect, easy as that. cheers

cheers.......how much are the recon kits?..........an easy job?

[Guest boostcut]

you need to study the bearing to see how it works... its a double race roller bearing. the nut on the cv preloads the whole shibang up.

[Guest]

 CUDDAS said:

hope it wasn't the disc rotor movement as the wheel hold's it to the hub, check that your cv 32mm nut is tight reel tight, & for the caliper check the dust boot's around the piston for splits, get some rubber grease & grease slider pins, push pistons in & pump them back out to free them up, if you need excess force to push them in they will need a re-co, get some 1200 grit sandpaper & clean up the piston, check piston for pitting, replace seal's ect, easy as that. cheers

OK time for me to have a HUGE DUMMY SPIT

What the F are doing with sandpaper anywhere near a brake caliper piston !! MUPPET

Replacing seals is only easy for someone who know what they are doing !! MUPPET

Rubber grease on slider pins!! MUPPET

To be completely honest MOST of the forum users have NO idea how to OVERHAUL any hydraulic part of a braking system ! FACT

Take the caliper to someone who can fix it and fix it properly

This is your braking system for your 1200Kg missle.......

Please note, If you do repairs and as a direct result of those repairs cause and accident...... YOUR IN THE POOH !!

[wildturkey]

 Ichi Ban']

[quote name='CUDDAS said:

hope it wasn't the disc rotor movement as the wheel hold's it to the hub, check that your cv 32mm nut is tight reel tight, & for the caliper check the dust boot's around the piston for splits, get some rubber grease & grease slider pins, push pistons in & pump them back out to free them up, if you need excess force to push them in they will need a re-co, get some 1200 grit sandpaper & clean up the piston, check piston for pitting, replace seal's ect, easy as that. cheers

/quote]

OK time for me to have a HUGE DUMMY SPIT

What the F are doing with sandpaper anywhere near a brake caliper piston !! MUPPET

Replacing seals is only easy for someone who know what they are doing !! MUPPET

Rubber grease on slider pins!! MUPPET

To be completely honest MOST of the forum users have NO idea how to OVERHAUL any hydraulic part of a braking system ! FACT

Take the caliper to someone who can fix it and fix it properly

This is your braking system for your 1200Kg missle.......

Please note, If you do repairs and as a direct result of those repairs cause and accident...... YOUR IN THE POOH !!

who would u recommend (in welly) to recon the caliper? Cheaper to replace or recon? cheers

[Guest boostcut]

any brake specialist?

[wildturkey]

 boostcut said:

you need to study the bearing to see how it works... its a double race roller bearing. the nut on the cv preloads the whole shibang up.

sweet cheers for that..........just out of interest is there supposed to be any play in the hub at all?.....mine had in and out play.....as well as side to side

[Guest boostcut]

in and out? as in hands at 12 and 6 oclock?

[Guest boostcut]

there should theoretically be no play at all. if you have play something is worn

[wildturkey]

 boostcut said:

in and out? as in hands at 12 and 6 oclock?

nope not quite............when i had the hub off i grabbed the bit where the studz are and could get movement along the same line as the axle (in and out?)........and also grabbing the hub with one hand I had quite a bit of movement at the 12 and 6 oclock.............and also 9 and 3 oclock positions

[Guest]

 wildturkey']

[quote name='CUDDAS said:

hope it wasn't the disc rotor movement as the wheel hold's it to the hub, check that your cv 32mm nut is tight reel tight, & for the caliper check the dust boot's around the piston for splits, get some rubber grease & grease slider pins, push pistons in & pump them back out to free them up, if you need excess force to push them in they will need a re-co, get some 1200 grit sandpaper & clean up the piston, check piston for pitting, replace seal's ect, easy as that. cheers

/quote]

OK time for me to have a HUGE DUMMY SPIT

What the F are doing with sandpaper anywhere near a brake caliper piston !! MUPPET

Replacing seals is only easy for someone who know what they are doing !! MUPPET

Rubber grease on slider pins!! MUPPET

To be completely honest MOST of the forum users have NO idea how to OVERHAUL any hydraulic part of a braking system ! FACT

Take the caliper to someone who can fix it and fix it properly

This is your braking system for your 1200Kg missle.......

Please note, If you do repairs and as a direct result of those repairs cause and accident...... YOUR IN THE POOH !!

who would u recommend (in welly) to recon the caliper? Cheaper to replace or recon? cheers

Any good workshop or brake specialist

Where abouts are you in Wellywood