TD05 Boost Spike problem..

[madmike]

Ok so i installed a TD05H into my 90 RS today.

Now i seen to be having a boost spike problem....

i am using the stock boost control solenoid.

When i am running the car on my standard chip i get 10-11 psi fairly stable.

When i swap it to the race chip (which is supposed to run 14psi.) the boost spikes up to 16i and over until i sook out and back of when she pops..... It feels like the wastegate is not opening at all.

.( i installed a switch off the ecu so i can turn off the mod chip and run back on standard chip.)

The turbo i took off was a VF10 an it seemed to be able to hold 14psi quite well until the VF10 run out of puff higher up in the rev range..

Is there any trick i need to know to do with running a TD05H on the stock boost control with Mod chip?

Or am i missing something.

Any help would be great guys..

[Bazza-NZ]

 madmike said:

Ok so i installed a TD05H into my 90 RS today.

Now i seen to be having a boost spike problem....

i am using the stock boost control solenoid.

When i am running the car on my standard chip i get 10-11 psi fairly stable.

When i swap it to the race chip (which is supposed to run 14psi.) the boost spikes up to 16i and over until i sook out and back of when she pops..... It feels like the wastegate is not opening at all.

.( i installed a switch off the ecu so i can turn off the mod chip and run back on standard chip.)

The turbo i took off was a VF10 an it seemed to be able to hold 14psi quite well until the VF10 run out of puff higher up in the rev range..

Is there any trick i need to know to do with running a TD05H on the stock boost control with Mod chip?

Or am i missing something.

Any help would be great guys..

In these older cars there is a restrictive pill in bottom hose which might require some modding to stop the boost spiking, can't remember when i read it they had to modify the pill to stop the spiking occuring, that might be a good idea..

i just ended up putting in a MBC in mine, hold 10PSI now and work perfectly fine, just pluged up the factory boost controller

[Koom]

The boost control on your chip will be mapped to control the vf10 to 14psi and not the TD05. Pretty sure the wastegate has a different pressure spring in it and so if you keep the duty cycle the same, you will run higher boost. When I did the same swap (from vf10 to TD05 while running a chip) it would just freeboost. Got to the point where the needle fell off the wee cog inside the gauge cause it'd gone somewhere past 25psi ;D Lasted about a week doing that before I perforated the block.

Found I could control the boost using the chip by running two standard solenoids in parallel and tee-ing the hoses together. Was rangi as but saved me from buying another boost controller at the time as I was a rather poor student.

[madmike]

 Koom said:

The boost control on your chip will be mapped to control the vf10 to 14psi and not the TD05. Pretty sure the wastegate has a different pressure spring in it and so if you keep the duty cycle the same, you will run higher boost. When I did the same swap (from vf10 to TD05 while running a chip) it would just freeboost. Got to the point where the needle fell off the wee cog inside the gauge cause it'd gone somewhere past 25psi ;D Lasted about a week doing that before I perforated the block.

Found I could control the boost using the chip by running two standard solenoids in parallel and tee-ing the hoses together. Was rangi as but saved me from buying another boost controller at the time as I was a rather poor student.

So i guess that means i have to go to an EBC...?

Mrs is gonna love paying for that too!!.

Or is there another way it can be done?

[Koom]

MBC?

Cheap as and should control it to ~14psi no problem.

[madmike]

I have one of these.

I had a go at setting it up but got either over or wastegate..

Couldn't seem to control it at all.

Is there something i'm doing wrong or need to do?

[Koom]

Guessing there must be something wrong in the way you're plumbing it. Whats the little square fitting? Just a tee-piece? Is it supposed to be set-up to bleed off to atmosphere or does it restrict pressure on the line going to the wastegate solenoid?

[madmike]

The "T" piece gets spliced in, arrow towards waste-gate, between vacuum source and waste-gate, the "Controller" comes from the Black-Port on the Top of the "T" to the Top-Port (Adjuster end) of "Controller", and just vents to Atmosphere out the Bottom-Port.

The arrows on the thing are completely wrong. After doing some research on how wastegates work and how the check valve is setup (the "T" part). I believe the knock-off company did not actually do the research when they made the stickers. The knock-off "T" has the spring and ball set up a different way then the "TurboSmart" one. In the "TurboSmart" setup the ball is against the inlet side, the knock-off is on the wastegate side. They both function the same, but use different techniques. You can check by blowing through the "T" fitting on the top and seeing where the air comes out... the free flowing side is the wastegate side. Because it does not matter if there is a vacuum leak on the wastegate side as is does not use vacuum pressure.

The idea is under vacuum the ball is pressed against the opening by the spring stopping any air from going to the wastegate or the venting boost controller. And when you have boost, the ball pushes against the spring and moves the ball out of the way allowing the airflow through to the wastgate and boost controller. "TurboXS" used to do this with little rubber gaskets, that when under vacuum seated and sealed and under boost pushed out of the way venting boost pressure. The check valve design also makes it so depending on spring tension (like a BOV or Wastegate spring) it requires a certain amount of boost (pressure against the ball) in order to even let the boost pressure pass by to the wastgate actuator. Making it so the actuator does not creep open before your peak boost.

The entire point of the check valve is to stop you from having a constant vacuum leak to atmosphere when using the Manual Boost Controller.

Hooked up this way the kit works perfectly.

---NOTE---

Wastegates work exactly opposite a BOV... but do the same thing.

Wastgates use boost pressure to compress a diaphragm spring rated to compress under a certain amount of load to actuate a valve.

IE: When you have positive/boost pressure of 7psi-ish on your vacuum line, a 7psi rated Wastegate actuates and opens the "Wastegate-valve" allowing exhaust gases to bypass the turbo thus creating less boost.

Blow Off Valves use vacuum pressure to suction a diaphragm with a spring rated to compress under a certain amount of load to actuate a valve.

IE: When you have negative/vacuum pressure of 7psi-ish on your vacuum line, a 7psi rated BOV (most are more like 17psi rated springs hence the adjuster screw) actuates and opens allowing the excess boost in front of the closed throttle body to be vented without back-flowing into the turbo.

Am i better to get rid of the t piece altogether and use the tap as a restriction type controller?

[Koom]

You mentioned in there that hooked up with their arrow around the wrong way that it worked perfectly??

Have you run the setup with the check valve on the manifold side? Can you blow through it easily?

And yeah, if it doesn't work I'd try using it like the restriction type controller.

[madmike]

 Koom said:

You mentioned in there that hooked up with their arrow around the wrong way that it worked perfectly??

Have you run the setup with the check valve on the manifold side? Can you blow through it easily?

And yeah, if it doesn't work I'd try using it like the restriction type controller.

I stole that from another forum i found doing a search* smacks hand for doing copy n paste*

I tried it backwards and it still didn't behave..

Might try it as a restrictor and see what happens..

Got a day off tuesday so will try then.

[pl0x]

when i used one of those, i had to put in it backwards and wind it right out the wrong way or something like that, would free boost any other way.

looked just like yours there,

plumb yours in backwards and see what it does, if nothing wind it as much as you can the other way and see what happens, you should find wastegate pressure somewhere

[BC5RA]

As already mentioned your ECU is set to control the waste gate pressure (6psi) of the VF10/VF8.

TD05 runs a 9psi waste gate spring (same as TD04 and VF series RBB Turbos)

Running the MBC as a adjustable restriction should help, but you may find Boost running away on you in the higher gears.

[madmike]

 BC5RA said:

Running the MBC as a adjustable restriction should help, but you may find Boost running away on you in the higher gears.

That's what I'm worried about..

I was losing boost in the higher gears pushing thev f10 past the point trying to hold 14psi i think.

I'm trying to hold a steady 14psi on the track..

Not worried about 1st 2nd gears.

Just want steady 14psi 3rd 4th 5th.

wonder if i could get the vf10 actuator to fit????

Then i could control it via the standard controller..

*heads off to shed for look and head scratch..*

[Guest boostin]

My situation was similar to Kooms. I had a VF10 running 13psi with a Turbosmart tap. I fitted up a TD05 and didn't touch the tap as I assumed the boost would be the same or similar. How wrong was I!! First time foot to the floor the boost gauge went off the scale. I wound the tap back a few clicks and tried again, off the scale again. I ended up winding it back to the very bottom and starting over.

Have you tried replacing the lines with fresh hoses? ie. no pill installed? I found that made a big difference to mine.

[madmike]

Yeah it's all fresh hoses..

gave me the shits when i saw the gauge shoot up. So i backed off real quick..

I just don't want to break anything trying to set it up LOL

[BC5RA]

Just wind it fully off, then you should run waste gate pressure.

[madmike]

 BC5RA said:

Just wind it fully off, then you should run waste gate pressure.

Will do..

Plan for tuesday is....

Install tap as a restrictor. Wind out all the way and go up from there.. Will be checking for 14psi in 3rd 4th 5th gears

If you live near me hope you don't get pissed off with me doing about six hundred runs past your house LOL!!!!

[madmike]

Thanks for the help guys...

Mrs was wrong!!!!

I didn't fuck something up!!!

Not this time anyway.

[Guest boostin]

So its fixed then??

[madmike]

Will find out tuesday...

Mrs told me today that i must have done something wrong because it wasn't running right..

Looks like the different wastegate was the reason..

I will use my day off Tuesday to try it out and see what happens..

Hopefully i will get it sorted before next trackday..

[Guest keltik]

With my manual boost controller on my TD05 it said in the manual to run as short a hose as possible. Doing that i got nasty boost spikes and it wouldnt hold a nice steady 14psi for me.

Adding in another foot or so of vac hose made things much more stable.

[Guest boostin]

Any result here??

[madmike]

No not yet.

Haven't had time to take it out an try the T turned round the other way.

Thinking about trying to find a cheap EBC..

Mrs has closed the cheque book for now.. :'(

[madmike]

If anybody has a cheap EBC laying around.

Or is willing to swap one for a set of nice KYB shocks fitted with nearly new king superlow's

I would be one very happy boy..

And now i have to spend the rest of the week rolling round Wellington on a Bloody Sales trip!! GRRRR

[funkytown]

In wellies? Come say hi and we can go for a splash on 21psi

Working just in the city, Pm me and can grab a latte as posh city folk do