The right to speed

[Joker]

then theres the on coming traffic and even the ditches themselves ...... there will ALWAYS be fatalities

[ReubenH]

 Treecrusher said:

I think registration should have a component attached to the weight of a vehicle. Something like $0 added cost to drive something light, and therefore fuel efficient and safer, like a nissan micra and up to $2000 to drive something heavy like a Hummer.

It would have two fold benefits; less fuel consumption and, over time and on average, less severe accidents. As there are two variables to the severity (or energy) of every accident; velocity and mass. Although the way the transport ministry propagates it, speed is the only one we need concern ourselves with. Maybe they are the ones that should re-attend fifth form physics rather than patronise us all with factually correct, but extremely misleading adverts.

Nice, but japan beat you to it. It's very affordable to own a kei car over there, they tax larger and more powerful vehicles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car

[ODB]

tbh this is pretty much all BS.

The average 4wd wouldnt cause that much more damage to roads than the average stationwagon.

The REAL inequality is in the diesel Rego0/RUC system.

Owners of massive trucks are getting subsidised by the average 4wd driver imo.

[Treecrusher]

Don't know about that. The latest Subaru Outback has a kerb weight of 1535kg compared with about 2300kg for the latest Prado.

Plus the higher centre of gravity doesn't help.

I don't think they should be banned, there are some people that have a genuine need for one. But people who buy one for the higher driving position or to drive up the ski field access road should be actively encouraged to buy a normal car....Or even better a Subaru

The biggest worry is most people don't understand the unique handling characteristics of these vehicles. And therefore are endangering everyone around them. But they feel safer so who cares if they kill the person they hit.

[Guest]

^ exactly what I think! and most station wagons have more space than a SUV anyway!

[madmike]

 ODB said:

tbh this is pretty much all BS.

The average 4wd wouldnt cause that much more damage to roads than the average stationwagon.

The REAL inequality is in the diesel Rego0/RUC system.

Owners of massive trucks are getting subsidised by the average 4wd driver imo.

You cannot be serious with this argument.

The reason most 4wd,suv's... Whatever you call them, are sold to Soccer mums and posers that buy them for two distinct reasons.

1 They are considered bigger heavier and therefore safer..

2 They are diesel which for one reason or another they think they will be hugely cheaper to run....

[ReubenH]

I love diesel road user charges, don't you?

[Treecrusher]

 madmike said:

2 They are diesel which for one reason or another they think they will be hugely cheaper to run....

Funny how wrong they are about this. Especially given the price of diesel these days, add on road user charges and they become almost equivalent. Then just sit back and wait until fuel pump packs a sad, glow plugs stop working and the injectors block up. All the time lugging around a 2.5 ton lard arse, there's just no comparison to a good quality station wagon.

[ODB]

Yo Treecrusher im real happy for you and Ima let you finish but i bought a 4WD for superior ground clearance and room for Mt Hutt trips/baby gear. The GTB station wagon i have access to hits big ass loose rocks that roll onto the road and it wont fit my board in without putting back seats down. Plus it allows me to carry a baby seat and two adults in the back. The GTB again, doesnt do that.

My point about RUCs and diesel rego prices being unfair in general was that massive goods vehicles dont pay much more than passenger 4wds. By the time they take off GST its fark all difference for both RUCs and Rego.

I dont think passenger diesel 4wds should be penalised for Rego. They do no more damage to the road than your average station wagon.

Sure some real tw@ts drive 4wds but dont lump every person who drives one into that category please.

Cheers.

[Treecrusher]

No offence intended at all, but IMO you are exactly the type of person we need to encourage into lighter less dangerous vehicles. I'm not talking about damage to roads, but damage to anything they come into contact with during an accident. Not just the weight either but the higher bumpers that miss things like side intrusion bars in a normal car.

Physics is physics and you can't argue with Newtons third law. The greater the mass, the greater the force required to move it and therefore the greater the force required to stop it.

There are plenty of other options for the points you raise. There are numerous 7 seater station wagons if extra space is needed.

As for Mt Hutt, I've done about 40 days so far this season, and have done over that for at least the last 4 seasons. All in Subarus, Either GTBs or WRXs. I agree the WRX seats need to go down to fit boards, but I can fit three boards, a pair of skis, all the boots and gear and 4 adults in my GTB with the seats up. And no less room than my mates LandCruiser. (But a lot smoother and much easier to drive up the hill)

I've never hit a rock and never had a break down, but I've seen dozens of over heated SUV's and many that have had a blow out hitting a rock between the treads.

Fact is I don't think you need to worry for a long time yet, as at this point my opinion is the minority. But I think as time goes on and petrol and carbon emissions become more expensive large SUV/4wd type vehicles will become a thing of the past, at least in the cities.

[ODB]

No offence taken bro but we will have to agree to disagree.

While any 4wd stationwagon is a superb ski car the fact remains the truck is just bigger and handier for us with baby.

My point was:

1. why are passenger diesel vehicles paying lots more on rego than their non-diesel counterparts?

2. why is my Rego similar in price to that of a huge truck after tax is discounted for the business/truck owner?

3. why do i pay a similar amount in RUCs to the above truck holder when a)the truck owner can write these off anyways and b)RUCs are fundamentally for vehicles over 3.5 tonnes.

Shit tax diesel at source i dont give a fark just dont penalise my jacked up station wagon due to the damage big trucks make of our roads.

My point was that the Rego and RUC system is fundamentally unfair to passenger diesel vehicles. They are effectively subsidising larger vehiclesw.

I was never making an argument for diesel 4wds vs stationwagons.

There is no argument its a democracy and I chose the former as its a better fit for me.

cheers

[subieboy]

My point is still that most people dont know how to drive one properly and still drive them like its a car (some like it s a performance car with better handling)

In fact during my time as a volly fire and Ambo I saw more crashes with idiots behind the wheel saying usually something to the effect of the following: "but it is a 4wd it handles better"...

People need to be taught how to drive a 4WD the same way you learn to drive a car.

[ODB]

erm.....its a mini house on wheels.....why would it handle better than a car?

Ok if its a range rover maybe it would handle better than some cars but I digress.

Mine handles like the big thing it is. I dont try to drive it like a race car......usually the baby is in the back so id be as careful as anyone!

[Jammasta]

 Treecrusher']

[quote name='madmike said:

2 They are diesel which for one reason or another they think they will be hugely cheaper to run....

/quote]

Funny how wrong they are about this.

Funny how wrong you are about this.

BMW X5 4.4L auckland to wellington, 700k's. 97L petrol $180

Mercedes ML320 3.0 Turbo Deisel, Auckland to Wellington, 700ks, 36l Diesel, $45. RUC's for 700ks driving (@ 34 per 1000 as per AA site) Call it 30 dollars. is still 100 less than an equivillant petrol.

That is a massive difference in cost saving. and it gets even more so for round town driving. These are real life examples.

[Treecrusher]

I always thought people got into trouble taking emergency action at 100 kph. Turn to avoid, over correct......flip.

[Treecrusher]

 TURTLE said:

Funny how wrong you are about this.

BMW X5 4.4L auckland to wellington, 700k's. 97L petrol $180

Mercedes ML320 3.0 Turbo Deisel, Auckland to Wellington, 700ks, 36l Diesel, $45. RUC's for 700ks driving (@ 34 per 1000 as per AA site) Call it 30 dollars. is still 100 less than an equivillant petrol.

That is a massive difference in cost saving. and it gets even more so for round town driving. These are real life examples.

Forgeting about the up front cost of these 6 figure vehicles though. And what they will cost to repair when the k's get up.

Besides most of the euo ones are basically oversized cars anyway.

I'm thinking more the prados, big horns surfs, muss. The mid 90's vehicles that are basically small trucks.

[subieboy]

 ODB said:

erm.....its a mini house on wheels.....why would it handle better than a car?

That is their stupid comments after collecting them from the side of the road...