Brake upgrade for B4 - a few more questions

[Guest]

Hello forum - yes i'm one of those annoying newbies who needs advice but probably doesn't have much advice to give in return.... so sorry about that in advance.

Anyhoo, have recently decided that I love my (2000) B4, and plan to drive it into the ground as nothing newer appeals to me yet. Have also just installed some coilovers and now really feel as though the brakes are a bit insufficient, so considering an upgrade before i cough up for the certification. I'm thinking of the 4 pot front, 2 pot rear (not Brembo) brake upgrade (i have the std 2 pot fronts, & 1 pot rears at the mo). Trouble is, I have the standard 5 spoke mags (not the split spokes), and i've been told that the 2 pots on the rear won't clear the mags.

So... does anyone have experience with upgrading the brakes on their B4 with the std 5 spoke wheels? I'm told that the bigger front (4 pots) should fit, and therefore not require a cert (?), but that i might need some kind of custom bracket, and a certification for the rears (?)... does anyone know what having the bracket made up might cost & who would do it....?

I want to hurry up & get my cert so my car is all nice & legal again - wof has run out now too (really should've waited to get the WOF then done the coilovers... oh well). ...so i need to decide on whether i'm going to do anything with the brakes that requires a cert to save myself paying twice.

Also I find the split spoke mags rather aesthetically displeasing, so if i did have to give up my mags, the only thing i'd want to replace them with would be the other stock mags that the Blitzen's seem to mostly have... but dont' really wanna pay to 'fix' wheels that ain't broke if i don't have to....

Then there's these on trademe:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=328255343

The rotors look a bit average/rusty to my untrained eye, and do i even need to replace my rotors? (Although i'm tempted to anyway....at least a skim is in order).

Any advice/general commentary would be gratefully considered... :-)

[DacerX]

id buy it for that kind of price

[gotasuby]

the rear hubs wont fit you car. you will need adapters to bolt them on. you can use your rotors if you want. same size

[Guest]

So i don't actually need the rotors or the hubs - just the Calipers?

[Guest]

Hrmmmm dacerx - your nickname seems awfully similar to the trademe nick of the fellow selling them....... :-)

[pl0x]

id only upgrade the fronts, they will bolt onto yours and even use your current rotors.

[funkytown]

is your car a 2000-2001 B4 with the 'new' solid spokes? if it is then they clear the brakes just fine. Its the early 96-97 'BG' solid 5 spokes that dont clear - and for the record the rears clear fine, its the fronts that dont without spaces (and dont go there).

In the form your car is now it wont accept the 2 pot rears, you have 3 options.

1) leave the 2 pots rears and just do four pot fronts - a good upgrade.

2) change to v7-8 WRX (not sti) hubs, everything will then bolt up and work WITHOUT adapters Im assuming a Rev D legacy runs r160

3) get adaptor plates (worst option imo). Brakes should be solid mounted and using factory unaltered hubs gives me peace of mind.

I konw the above as i had the same issues about 6 months ago. (different scenario) but it all applies the same.

[funkytown]

Note that TM link has the Rear hubs that will accept the 2pot calipers so would all bolt up. you can re use your front rotors but will need new pads, and you will need new pads and rotors on the rears if you do the two pots. But i agree with pl0x as i said above

[funkytown]

the last thing as doing the hub conversion if you do - and the brakes DO NOT require certing so go get it now for your coilovers if you want to

[Scoobydoo]

 dacerx said:

id buy it for that kind of price

Hahaha you cheeky buggar

[Guest]

If these are just normal 17inch rims (same as impreza ones) they clear easily.

These rims --->

[funkytown]

these are the Revision D ones i was talking about that clear

these are the early ones that dont clear

[ODB]

have you done a good pad/fluid/braided lines/brake booster upgrade and found you out-drive it already?????

If not then there is your first brake mod.

[gotasuby]

the b4 and bh legacy use a multi link rear suspention so will not work with the hubs on the auction

[funkytown]

 gotasuby said:

the b4 and bh legacy use a multi link rear suspention so will not work with the hubs on the auction

true true, i had forgotten that. option 2 wont work then.

gotasuby - do be/bh only have the narrow spacing 1 pot rear hubs? Some wrx's have the wider spaced hubs with single side pots.. but that might only be in R180.

[Guest]

Ok lets see if first image posting works... only pic of my car i could find online at the moment was in a facebook account that wasn't mine...

But yeah they definitely look like those "early ones that don't clear" on the older wagon, although if there's any finer detail to notice i can't pick it.

So I can just upgrade the front brakes, and there's no issue of braking power being disproportionate front to back?? I just assumed it would be kinda like the suspension - not exactly ideal to do half the car but not the other. But if just doing the front 4pots will still be a nice upgrade, & no cert is required then i'll probably just do that.....

As for good pads.... probably not... i think i probably would've just picked up Ferodo's from Ripco from memory. Fluid.. - wouldn't have a clue... probably something basic with a dot in it - It's probably also due for a flush. Braided lines? Nah - commentary has been so questionable around whether these actually improve anything. Although i wouldn't be adverse to doing the braided lines if they were a reasonably cheap mod? Brake booster...? I should probably find out what a brake booster is....

Secondary motivation for considering an upgrade (aside from, the braking feeling average) was to avoid figuring out/fixing my current setup on the rear - lol. I had extremely uneven wear on the left rear pads last time i changed them - think "ying yang" wear (completely worn at one end of the pad, not worn at all at the other). I'm sure something's probably sticking/bent, but just need to stop procrastinating and take 'em off and have a better look.

[funkytown]

you might have a sticking slider on that caliper, you can fix them or just replace that caliper for cheap as chips (would make sense if you do a fluid and braided line change at the same time)

There is no issue with braking bias have 4's up front and singles on the rear.. thats the configuration that early STIs came with from factory.

The 4 pots wll clear those rims (those are late model rev d ones) no worries.

Do the things ODB suggested as well and you will get markedly improved braking AND pedal feel. All are worthwhile. This will help cure alot of what you are calling "average" braking which i and thinking you mean pedal feel.

[Guest]

Thanks heaps guys.

So my action plan is to go get my cert so I am all legal & insured again. Then i'll look at procuring me some 4 pots for the front (Roscos quoted me $150 p/caliper - not too bad), then whilst i'm putting those on i'll do a flush & maybe those braided lines too.

You're probably right to a degree about the average braking being pedal feel..... although i do have this sense of the car being pretty heavy and not wanting to push it much further without having more confidence in the car's ability to pull up faster if i need it to.

Also, I drove an ex's Evo VII a few years ago and haven't forgotten how incredibly physics-defying that braking felt.... **want it**, but i think that car was probably notably lighter, and had Brembos that would have certainly been in much better shape than my brakes are currently..... so I will keep dreaming and just sort those couple of little things out. :-)

[gotasuby]

pads and fluid make a huge difference. i just changed rears with decent pads and that made a big change. front pad change was huge though

[DacerX]

 Scoobydoo']

[quote name='dacerx said:

id buy it for that kind of price

/quote]

Hahaha you cheeky buggar

A guys got to try and sell his product lol, but seriously buy them

[aim]

how much for just the front calipers?

 lilmissB said:

Thanks heaps guys.

So my action plan is to go get my cert so I am all legal & insured again. Then i'll look at procuring me some 4 pots for the front (Roscos quoted me $150 p/caliper - not too bad), then whilst i'm putting those on i'll do a flush & maybe those braided lines too.

You're probably right to a degree about the average braking being pedal feel..... although i do have this sense of the car being pretty heavy and not wanting to push it much further without having more confidence in the car's ability to pull up faster if i need it to.

Also, I drove an ex's Evo VII a few years ago and haven't forgotten how incredibly physics-defying that braking felt.... **want it**, but i think that car was probably notably lighter, and had Brembos that would have certainly been in much better shape than my brakes are currently..... so I will keep dreaming and just sort those couple of little things out. :-)

For straight stopping distance, rubber and weight has more to do with braking than bremblows or big-ass calipers. Most (if not, all) 2 pots have the ability to lock the wheels, if you have that amount of stopping power, you have the power to stop pretty quickly. Evo 7, curb weight of about 1400kg, 3rd gen legacy, somewhere near 1500, so yeah a bit of weight diff there. But with the right suspension and rubber you can still easily push your passengers face into the dash Big callipers, braided lines, high temp pads etc are all fine and dandy but only really of use on the track. The stock pads that Subaru sell for the B4 are fine for the open road, even if you are thrashing it. You just won't be able to replicate the punishing you can give it on the track without acting like a complete and utter f***wit on the open road. I'd argue upgrading the stock B4 brake setup is a waste of money for anything other than track work. You're better putting it towards better suspension or swaybars, I'd be suprised if you saw significant (ie more than experimental error) improvements in stopping distance by upgrading pads. In fact, I'd argue the best way to decrease your stopping distance (apart from weight reduction and consumables) is a better suspension setup.

I've found I out brake my cars (2001 rev d b4 legacy) current (stock) setup on the track, but I don't have the cash to do anything about it atm I also have never felt the brakes (brake fade) limits on the road.

But hey, Brembos and 4 pots do look f***ing sweet

[DacerX]

i really want to sell the set

[Guest]

Cheers aim - better suspension done & dusted - certification pending.... :-)

As for track days.... I do have an interest.... just need to be dragged along to my first one, then i'll be sure to enjoy it and wanna go again some time. But will probably never get into it too seriously cos i don't wanna go down the weight reduction route - i like my nice heavy sub box, and the interior is one of the main attractions to the B4, and the reason i wanna keep it for a while - i've found most other newer cars interiors i've seen have that nasty cheap plastic look to them.... *do not want*.

But yeah I can't say i've ever felt brake fade on the road either. Have gotten things nice and hot stinky, but not actually experienced any fade. But hey, it's a cheap upgrade, and as you say the 4 pots can be made to look sweeeet.

[DacerX]

and if u read that auction it comes with the read hubs so that you dont need a cert, also it will be the 4pot fronts that what will not clear ur wheels not the rear 2 pots and that trader also has b4 twin spoke rims for sale that will clear the brakes that you are interested in

[funkytown]

Her rims do clear 4pots dacerx.. And like gotsuby said the rear hubs for sale won't bolt up as her model b4 runs multilink rear suspension which ain't compatible with those hubs