Example of low king springs

[slystiguy]

mmm tis a sad story indeed

[Guest S T E Y E]

is a sad story yes but i still dont see the cut springs are to blaim...maybe the fact it was over loaded and speed???

the only real way for cuts to cause u to crash is if theyre uncaptive and u hit a big enough bump that the strut goes to full travel and the spring falls out

[Simon C]

It's not just that. Cut springs don't have enough rate to stop your suspension from bottoming out against the bumpstops, or going to full extension, even if they're captive at full droop. So if you hit a minor bump on a corner, your suspension on that wheel will suddenly overload, bounce that corner airborne, and you'll snap into oversteer or understeer. Also, lowering your suspension on an Impreza too much screws your camber curve. Too low and you'll go into increasingly positive camber when you corner, and again you'll skid out. A stock car will outhandle a car on cutties any day. Just like noone deliberately mods their engine to make less power and torque, I find it hard to beleive that anyone who bothers to do some reading would do the same to their suspension.

Yeah, you could argue that those guys + speed + lack of skill + possible alcohol were a guarantee for the coroner. But quite possibly they might have made it around that corner if they weren't riding a deathtrap.

[dubbedup]

god there are some numpties in here...

no springs ftw, there happy.... :

if cut and captive springs were soooooo dangerous they would be illegal simple as that, since they are not it leads me to believe they are perfectly safe.

I have rolled with cutties in most my cars with no ill affects, (havent bounced one off the road yet) even my superlow kings became uncaptive after a few months, so are they more dangerous??

altho i havent had to cuttie up the wrx due to coilovers being so cheap these days for them but if it was 10 years ago i would have definatly done the shortend shock and cut spring treatment without a doubt.

[GC8E2DD]

 Simon C said:

Cut springs don't have enough rate to stop your suspension from bottoming out against the bumpstops

Um, you realise the spring rate increases right? ... or are you saying that you have calculated that for all Subaru springs on all models there is no number or fraction of coils you can remove whereby the increased rate is sufficient to offset the reduced travel? If you have done all of this research, then this forum would be a great place to post your findings.

[dubbedup]

 GC8E2DD']

[quote name='Simon C said:

Cut springs don't have enough rate to stop your suspension from bottoming out against the bumpstops

/quote]

Um, you realise the spring rate increases right? ... or are you saying that you have calculated that for all Subaru springs on all models there is no number or fraction of coils you can remove whereby the increased rate is sufficient to offset the reduced travel? If you have done all of this research, then this forum would be a great place to post your findings.

i also would be more than keen to see your info backed with real life stats as i have only learnt what i know thru trial and error.

[D-Style]

Ive had some factory BC springs compressed once. Was a waste of money. Ended up being on the bump stops, good for looks but thats about it.

[Simon C]

Are you talking about compressed springs or cutties? Cut linear springs retain the same spring rate. Are you referring to cut progressive rate springs? If you are, then yes, you will change the average spring rate across the spring depending on which end you cut coils off. But even if you cut the soft end off a progressive, you won't end up with the increase in spring rate that you need to take up the reduced travel.

If you're referring to heat treated, compressed springs, then yes you are right, the spring rate will increase.

My "research" is simple applied high school physics. For which I represented NZ internationally at high school. And I'm not going to list the piles of webpages I read when picking my second set of coilovers, but am happy to direct you to search NASIOC and IWSTI as an excellent starting point. Like you want me to present my research, please feel free to present your own research to the contrary if you think my physics are wrong.

I don't have an issue with lowering springs. In fact, there are some really good lowering springs out there that are well suited to the factory standard shocks. If you want to slam your ride, that's your perogative, just be aware you'll more than likely compromise your ride to do so. But cutties are just dumb. Really plain dumb. I don't see why I'm the villain for pointing that out, or for supporting my arguments with information you could find from any reputable source.

And for bedtime reading, here's a very good thread from NASIOC about what happens when you put a JDM brand name, captive spring with insufficient spring rate / coil length into a standard shock. Enjoy: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1267918

[GC8E2DD]

 Simon C said:

Cut linear springs retain the same spring rate.

Number of active coils is a component of the divisor in the formula for spring rate. Take out a coil, and the spring rate increases. Which one of us is missing something?

[zarnah]

 GC8E2DD']

[quote name='Simon C said:

Cut linear springs retain the same spring rate./quote]

Number of active coils is a component of the divisor in the formula for spring rate. Take out a coil, and the spring rate increases. Which one of us is missing something?

yes, take a spring from a factory setup and try to compress it down say 15cm with your hands, now take a coil off it and try again, will be very hard the second time round.

Simple experiment, simple answer

Cant believe there is actually a thread on here with people arguing that cut springs are good? maybe they should go join lowndvs or something......

[D-Style]

 Simon C said:

Are you talking about compressed springs or cutties? Cut linear springs retain the same spring rate. Are you referring to cut progressive rate springs? If you are, then yes, you will change the average spring rate across the spring depending on which end you cut coils off. But even if you cut the soft end off a progressive, you won't end up with the increase in spring rate that you need to take up the reduced travel.

If you're referring to heat treated, compressed springs, then yes you are right, the spring rate will increase.

My "research" is simple applied high school physics. For which I represented NZ internationally at high school. And I'm not going to list the piles of webpages I read when picking my second set of coilovers, but am happy to direct you to search NASIOC and IWSTI as an excellent starting point. Like you want me to present my research, please feel free to present your own research to the contrary if you think my physics are wrong.

I don't have an issue with lowering springs. In fact, there are some really good lowering springs out there that are well suited to the factory standard shocks. If you want to slam your ride, that's your perogative, just be aware you'll more than likely compromise your ride to do so. But cutties are just dumb. Really plain dumb. I don't see why I'm the villain for pointing that out, or for supporting my arguments with information you could find from any reputable source.

And for bedtime reading, here's a very good thread from NASIOC about what happens when you put a JDM brand name, captive spring with insufficient spring rate / coil length into a standard shock. Enjoy: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1267918

I was just giving another angle to the OP.

Yes cut springs are stupid. Legal or not, they are stupid. If you dont have the money to buy proper lowered springs/shocks, then GTFO.

Would you drink meths instead of beer/spirts cause its cheaper?

[GC8E2DD]

Serenity now!

*face palm*

[1989RS]

with my springs only one side rubs on the guard which is the left hand side of the car there is a huge difference on each side. I can fit my hand between the guard and tyre on the right but cant on the left would this be a wheel alignment problem?

[sultan]

 dubbedup said:

god there are some numpties in here...

no springs ftw, there happy.... :

if cut and captive springs were soooooo dangerous they would be illegal simple as that, since they are not it leads me to believe they are perfectly safe.

lol yes there are some indeed, and with what you've said, you're one of them sorry. captive or not, cut springs and all other springs modified in any way shape or form are and always will be illegal unless you are a reputable spring manufacturer remanufacturing a spring. feel free to argue with me. the LTSA will back me up.

[Guest S T E Y E]

GOSH

everyones so anal about this subject

Y do u care if someone else has cuts in there car?? if u hate them so much then YOU and YOU alone run watever springs u want in your own...

I was only pointing out that cut springs can be done propely and what not

so if u dont like cuts then dont get them in ur own ride

[Guest loren]

Can you go hang out on the honda/nissan/toyota/mitsi forums for a while?... just think we all need a break from you...

[Guest S T E Y E]

bro i need a break from ur ass hole comments to say the least

im mearly trying to stop the bitch fiting over springs...

at the end of the day the car u each own is urs...atleast i hope so any way...

so YOU lower it the way YOU want it to be lowered

[Guest loren]

great, then we have an agreement. see you in say June?

[Guest]

section 2.3(16)

taken from the lvvta site's documents

http://www.lvvta.org.nz/stdSuspensionSystems.pdf

so looks like it depends on teh cars strut setup as to if you can cut a spring or not

the cut spring will has to meet all teh other safty aspects, rebound, compression etc.

this is all regarding certing of things aswell.

-smurff

[Guest S T E Y E]

in all reality the rule book can be stretched alot of ways...

if thats from the virm thats a mighty old one lol

ive got a copy of the newest virm out (woulda sat my WOF ticket if the business lasted)

and the virm states that compressed springs need a cert

it does however say that u canot cut a spring...

but in all honesty no matter who the wof inspector is they will pass a cut spring as long as it is captive

but truely to lay the shit to rest you lower the car how u wana lower it

if someone wants to do it a different way its their choice no point getting super anal over it

[Guest]

im just going off the one on the Low Volume Vehicle Technical Association Inc site, they are ment to be on top of there game one would think hahaha.

-smurff

[Guest S T E Y E]

haha yea one would think...

some of the threads on this forum are way out of hand its getting silly

[Guest]

so, tracked it down, warrent, cut spring bad, unless, it is certed and meets the requirements of cert and has the cert for them.

took a while reading through the virm and the LVV manuals hahaha

that took a while, but they can be used legaly if proven safe hahaha

-smurff

[Guest S T E Y E]

id love that one on the cert plate

suspension - CUT SPRINGS

lol

[Guest]

hahaha, yea, would be interesting, maybe it would say modified, not cut, got to keep it PC

-smurff