01 GTB TT e-tune pinking issues and pre det

[Guest]

Hi Guys im new to this site and subarus in general, so please be kind. lol

I have a 01 gtb tt e tune that is totally standard apart from a sti genome boost gauge and controller, I always put in super unleaded, and since i have had it i have had pinking or knocking issues and pre detonation boost issues, I chucked it into sub lab in whangarei and had the ignition timing backed off by 3 or 0.3 degrees (not sure which but whichever sounds right that'll be it) after i had this done it seemed to be fine for a couple of weeks but now the problems seemed to have come back with avengance, especially going uphill, the engine starts pinking its tits off from low revs and from less than 0.5 bar of boost, it will usually boost fine all the way to 1 bar but you can feel the engine holding back sometimes, and then some times the pre detonation controller kicks in and knocks boost down to 0.5 bar and it won't go over that for a while.

Also fuel consumption has gone through the roof since the problem has started to get worse, my assumption would be the ecu dumping fuel when its pinking to compensate, any ideas guys on how to solve this ? I do have a theroy that maybe when sublab backed off the ignition timing that maybe the ecu somehow reset the timing back to factory setting somehow, but i never got a flat battery or anything to suggest that, but maybe thats a common thing ???????

[subieboy]

 captmorgan1066 said:

controller,

Thats probably where the issue lies, is the Boost controller capable of running separate and distinct boost curves in the same map??

I have the same model as yours and run the Profec B Spec II boost controller... This is not the ideal model, but I think the GREDDY E-O1 was back in the day (2005/2006)

http://www.alamomotorsports.com/greddy/grprofec.htm

You will need to tune the boost controller properly as the TT's are a different beast. I spent months tuning mine and got it to a point where I am happy(ish) Primary still hit 10PSI at 3000RPM under WOT in 3rd gear...

The problem may be as follows:

Very simplified, but if you think of the car as having two separate boost curves in the same RPM range then you might get what I mean... (cant think of a better way to describe it but meh)

Primary turbo boost is max 10 PSI (and you can get that max upto roughly 4250RPM). Dont exceed this value in Primary stage...

at 4250 RPM the secondary starts to come "online" and is fully "online" at about 5000RPM, the reverse is true again when decelerating...

ONLY at 5200RPM can you go for higher boost (Max 15Psi ish)...

If you boost over 10.2Psi in the primary stage (0RPM to 4250RPM) your ecu will open up the waste gate and drop all boost as a protection measure for the car...

BTW if any one has this sucker for sale at a reasonable rate I would seriously consider

[telemekas]

 captmorgan1066 said:

Hi Guys im new to this site and subarus in general, so please be kind. lol

I have a 01 gtb tt e tune that is totally standard apart from a sti genome boost gauge and controller, I always put in super unleaded, and since i have had it i have had pinking or knocking issues and pre detonation boost issues, I chucked it into sub lab in whangarei and had the ignition timing backed off by 3 or 0.3 degrees (not sure which but whichever sounds right that'll be it) after i had this done it seemed to be fine for a couple of weeks but now the problems seemed to have come back with avengance, especially going uphill, the engine starts pinking its tits off from low revs and from less than 0.5 bar of boost, it will usually boost fine all the way to 1 bar but you can feel the engine holding back sometimes, and then some times the pre detonation controller kicks in and knocks boost down to 0.5 bar and it won't go over that for a while.

Also fuel consumption has gone through the roof since the problem has started to get worse, my assumption would be the ecu dumping fuel when its pinking to compensate, any ideas guys on how to solve this ? I do have a theroy that maybe when sublab backed off the ignition timing that maybe the ecu somehow reset the timing back to factory setting somehow, but i never got a flat battery or anything to suggest that, but maybe thats a common thing ???????

These cars are tuned to use 100 octane anything less will cause some problems.

Use Subaru upper engine cleaner to clear carbon deposites.

Have SubLab check trouble codes,reset ECU and adjust ignition timing by -5 degrees.

(If you have a Laptop and the correct cable you can do this yourself, using SSM program)

[EJ20T]

Ive had this model for 2 years now and this is the way it is, only use 98 in it, and it will still pink in summer when you have heat soaked the intercooler or load the engine for a while and get the IC hot, leave the ECU be and get the best fuel possible in it, the possible fuel econ in this model is great, ive almost got 700km out of a tank, something the 98-01 model will never do, but run fine on 95

[Guest]

The Aus spec B4s suffer from this issue. Most people get there cars retuned, either reflash or piggyback which seems to eradicate 90 percent of the pinging. Some members also report that a front mount intercooler significantly improves the issue.

 EJ20T said:

Ive had this model for 2 years now and this is the way it is, only use 98 in it, and it will still pink in summer when you have heat soaked the intercooler or load the engine for a while and get the IC hot, leave the ECU be and get the best fuel possible in it, the possible fuel econ in this model is great, ive almost got 700km out of a tank, something the 98-01 model will never do, but run fine on 95

I get around 650ish out of my 99 BH GTB I would never put anything less than 98octane in.

[gazzy2000]

here: http://www.clubsub.org.nz/forum/index.php/topic,17120.0.html

The dude that we were helping in that thread with the same problem just got rid of the car in the end LOL, one way to solve the problem i spose

[Guest]

thanks guys, espesially gazzy2000 that link has alot of good info, it sounds like i just need to take it back to sublab and have them reflash the ecu and retard the timing more, then I guess that should solve my problems, but being new to this whole pinking / det scenario, can you tell me the likley outcome if it continues, are we talking just shaving a couple of years and kms off of the life expectancy of various engine internals, or is it more of a case of everytime i give it the beans i am seriously risking the engine about to shit itself ????

[Dv8er - FSTWRX]

Ah someone else from Whangarei. Have you tried running the car on that Gull Force 10 stuff to see if that stops it? Otherwise you could always put octane boost in every tank. Otherwise best option is an ECU re-flash as mentioned, but it's not cheap. Mind you, neither is a replacement engine :-\

Note: For those that don't know, there is no 98 north of owera other then Gull Force 10

 captmorgan1066 said:

Can you tell me the likley outcome if it continues, are we talking just shaving a couple of years and kms off of the life expectancy of various engine internals, or is it more of a case of everytime i give it the beans i am seriously risking the engine about to s*** itself ????

Yea probably the later one unfortunately.

[Flippymoi]

 subieboy said:

Primary turbo boost is max 10 PSI (and you can get that max upto roughly 4250RPM). Dont exceed this value in Primary stage...

at 4250 RPM the secondary starts to come "online" and is fully "online" at about 5000RPM, the reverse is true again when decelerating...

ONLY at 5200RPM can you go for higher boost (Max 15Psi ish)...

If you boost over 10.2Psi in the primary stage (0RPM to 4250RPM) your ecu will open up the waste gate and drop all boost as a protection measure for the car...

BTW if any one has this sucker for sale at a reasonable rate I would seriously consider

My stock peaks at 15-17psi at primary and secondary? 10 doesn't sound quite right.

Also what is up with people getting 650-700km from a tank! I get 450-500 on a good day (rev d bh5). Any tips would be so appreciated given the price of fuel at the moment.

[pharnos]

upper engine cleaner increased my fuel economy a bit. i'm also rev d bh5, and get an avg of 9.8km per L. Around town about 9-10kms per L, open road about 10-13km per L.

I notice running really near to E on the gauge and filling again shows I still had about 10L remaining (if it is a 60L tank?)

[Flippymoi]

That makes me feel a bit better. I get about the same stats, 11l per 100km give or take a little. The fuel light comes on with 10l to go which I suppose would allow for another 100ks if you wanted to cut it really fine.

Anyway, I should not turn this into another fuel consumption thread :

[Guest]

 

Also what is up with people getting 650-700km from a tank! I get 450-500 on a good day (rev d bh5). Any tips would be so appreciated given the price of fuel at the moment.

I get around 650km in my Rev D BH5 (2003)... you REALLY have to nurse it - ie have no fun at all, just keep up with the traffic... i get 270km on a tank for a complete thrashing, and around 480km on a tank with the type of driving in would like to do - ie using all the low down torque. To get 650km + you need to keep off boost - get a boost guage if you haven't already as you would be suprised when your on boost.. i generally try to stay well under 5psi to get 650km.. usually try to keep it off boost altogether.

[ReubenH]

I found out the other days these f***ers have at least a 10.5:1 compression ratio, and det issues are very much common place. These cars must run on 100 octane, so running them on 95 is just plain stupid.

And these cars should be getting WAY more than 10L/100K. My GTB with it's high boost, low compression master 4 with an STi ECU gets 10L/100K. Gen 4's should be getting around 8L/100K i reckon, again, you gotta keep them spick'n'span, and never run anything lower than 98.

[aim]

Eh? Mines been on 95 before (ran out of 98 in q/t and wanaka) and barely any difference... no pinking, even with foot to the floor up a hill. As for fuel consumption, fuel light came on at about 580k (wasn't nannying it either) went another 40k until I filled her up. Still run 98 99.99% of the time though; better safe than sorry.

Factory tune on a manual '01 rev D. Dunno wtf you guys are on about lol.

[GravelBen]

 ReubenH said:

I found out the other days these f***ers have at least a 10.5:1 compression ratio, and det issues are very much common place. These cars must run on 100 octane, so running them on 95 is just plain stupid.

And these cars should be getting WAY more than 10L/100K. My GTB with it's high boost, low compression master 4 with an STi ECU gets 10L/100K. Gen 4's should be getting around 8L/100K i reckon, again, you gotta keep them spick'n'span, and never run anything lower than 98.

Pretty sure its 9.5 (or maybe even 9.0) rather than 10.5:1, I forget the exact number.

My bog standard Rev-D will average around the 9L/100km mark easily enough on the open road while passing the majority of traffic - best on 98, it runs ok on 95 (has to as you can't get 98 in Southland!) but feels noticeably sluggish and 10-15% thirstier.

[neil2121]

All I could find in Christchurch for a few days after the quake was 91. Jeez, talk about being gentle with it (03 GTB).

Felt so wrong to be pouring 91 into it.

[ReubenH]

Hmm, maybe it's the 206's that are 10.5... this might warrant a bit more research! Gravel ben, you got docs showing that the compression ratio's are less than 10.5 in some? I'm going to see if gerald can send me the manuals he found 10.5:1 in to me. This is all highly relevant to me, cause it could mean saving $500 odd...

[ReubenH]

Ok, found it in my liberty manual. Now, the Model Year 2003 LIBERTY is listed as 9:1 compression ratio. No difference is mentioned between auto and manual.

So there's proof. BUT. That's the liberty, do we know if things are different for the JDM legacy? We know they aren't the same, subaru did mess with them to run on the lower octane petrol in oz, but do we know the speficis? Was that just tune, or was it internal things like CR's?

[GravelBen]

Do you know what CR the Rev A-C motor is? If its 8.5 then the Rev-D is 9, if its 9 the Rev-D is 9.5 - I can't remember which, pretty sure is was listed in a manual somewhere - there was a thread on here where Boostin said they were the same, then checked again and corrected himself.

Sorry I'm not more help, I just can't remember where I got it from. If you can search old threads I might have mentioned a source previously?

ETA: Just checked my old posts where I said 9:1 so I'll go with that again!

Rev-D tech article here:

http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Subaru-Liberty-B4-Tech-Overload/A_1242/article.html

[neil2121]

Reuben I've got a Liberty manual here that lists the BH from 2003MY as being 10:1.

It's a Subaru manual for the Liberty 1998-2003. Let me know if you need a copy.

[subieboy]

 Flippymoi']

[quote name='subieboy said:

Primary turbo boost is max 10 PSI (and you can get that max upto roughly 4250RPM). Dont exceed this value in Primary stage...

at 4250 RPM the secondary starts to come "online" and is fully "online" at about 5000RPM, the reverse is true again when decelerating...

ONLY at 5200RPM can you go for higher boost (Max 15Psi ish)...

If you boost over 10.2Psi in the primary stage (0RPM to 4250RPM) your ecu will open up the waste gate and drop all boost as a protection measure for the car...

BTW if any one has this sucker for sale at a reasonable rate I would seriously consider

img]http://www.alamomotorsports.com/greddy/profece01.jpg[/img]

My stock peaks at 15-17psi at primary and secondary? 10 doesn't sound quite right.

Also what is up with people getting 650-700km from a tank! I get 450-500 on a good day (rev d bh5). Any tips would be so appreciated given the price of fuel at the moment.

Standard factory boost setting is:

Primary 10Psi

Secondary 15.4...

Failsafe should kick in shortly after that (fark nose as I cant remember what level boostcut comes in at in the secondary stage but think its about 16PSI and primary just over 10.6Psi)

Also I got some serious good fuel economy going from Whangerei to Motueka and back loaded to the gunwhales - I believe circa 700Km from a tank (no fuel light yet)...

Round town I could get maybe 500Km ( not driving like I stolke it tho)...

[ReubenH]

 neil2121 said:

Reuben I've got a Liberty manual here that lists the BH from 2003MY as being 10:1.

It's a Subaru manual for the Liberty 1998-2003. Let me know if you need a copy.

I'm pretty sure you'll have the same as me. If it has 3 engine sections, you want the third, "H4DOSTC", as apposed to section one which is for SOHC, and section 2 which is for the H6's. Section 1, for the SOHC engines, lists the CR as 10:1.

Oh, and if anyone's interested, the H6's are 10.7:1 according to the MY03 Liberty manual.

And anyway, we still don't know if liberty is the same as JDM legacy, we know for certain the JDM's are rated at 206KW on 100octane, but the liberty's at 190, on 98. Is this just ECU related, or is the CR altered too? that's the big question!