Having your cake and eating it as well...

[Guest]

Some quick numbers using 90% VE

These numbers are approx but seem ok versus the real world.

200kw atw = 430cfm = 6500rpm @ 16 psi

240kw atw = 500cfm = 6500 @ 20-21psi

So a vf22 can approach that figure as long as there are no restrictions to the engine from intake to exhaust.

Yes 565cc injectors will just make it.

[Pappu1]

Will a vf22 be able to flow 500cfm tho

I mean without too much heat in the charged air

Yo wrxonp u looking at this topic au cos seeing u wanting a vf22 in the classifieds

[Solja]

im sure a vf22 could flow 235-240kw but that would be maxed and dyno and mod dependant, heres abit of info on some of my previous dyno times vf23 @20psi 201kw vf22 @20psi got 207kw maxing out the 440cc injectors, the turbo had more in it though. 555cc injectors maxed out at 301whp but with 3.5bar fuel pressure and 380cc meth/water injection got them up to 328whp at 85% injector duty cycle. overall vf22 is a decent turbo for stock injectors

[WRXONP]

Wow 20 psI to get 200 on a VF23. What other mods it have etc . . What was air fuel like on 20

[Guest]

 pappu said:

Will a vf22 be able to flow 500cfm tho

I mean without too much heat in the charged air

As above it would be maxed out. It has been done in the real world.

You would need all the mods done right

Someone i know was talking to garry capper and thats also a number he tht the turbo could do.

But remember just because its possible does not mean it will happen. Sadly the real world is not like Gran Turismo.

Cars and mods do not always make the hp numbers stamped on the turbo.

[Guest]

some engines are very different with how they behave and make power. and your engine will only make what its going to make.

You can't really use an SR20 as a comparison to an EJ20. SR power curves generallly fall over at 6500rpm or so due to engine design being designed to make good torque as well as they are 2 wheel drive.

we were talking to a guy from total turbo (i think thats the company) its in Jville wellington about this particular issue with suby turbos falling over, Shaft speeds become a problem with high boost 20psi+ and they arn't designed to flow that amount of air as they are designed to be a punchy responsive turbo. Back cutting the exhaust wheel can help with the turbo falling over. There was a whole lot of other information, but I had to answer the phone etc so I missed out on a fair wack of info.

personally I prefer a punchy and responsive turbo setup with a wide power band. I'm quite excited for my own car with a 1JZ VVTi (2.5ltr) single turbo.

we just tuned a customers car with the same setup and it made 226kwatw and 400Nm at the crank on 13.7psi. But the bit that i like is the fact it was making 5.6psi at 1500rpm so for me its a perfect drift setup for slipway etc

caspos car with the VF22 with the 5.1 diff ratios is a very rapid car and even with semi slicks in the dry it likes to break loose, so its a perfect setup for hill climbs etc as the power is always there

funkytowns car with his 3071 with the 6 speed is a fast car and even on low boost its fun and responsive to drive and If I was to own a subaru this would be my prefered turbo setup for track and street

[WRXONP]

Old thread hit ha ha . . . Just wondering cos you guys said a VF34 can make more power than a VF23 . . . how is this so ? i did some small research and vf34 has smaler exhaust housing ?

[Guest]

Larger compressor, more modern blade design. Ability to flow more air.

The p18 exhaust housing is not the limiting factor its the ihi turbine. People have tested the two exhaust housings in the UK and there were no power gains just more lag.

[WRXONP]

Sounds good . . Will do some more research ha ha am keen to try a VF34

[funkytown]

 WRXONP said:

Sounds good . . Will do some more research ha ha am keen to try a VF34

fwiw the vf30 is the same design as the vf34 except it has the plain BB CHRA, so its a smidgen more laggy than a 34 but same peak power wise

[WRXONP]

Oh true that . Thanks for that info . Whats up with ver 7s pulling more boost than me and less kw and they even been re flashed ? A bit off topic I know just makes me a bit cautious to get a VF30

[funkytown]

Id like to see your car on a comparable dyno say avodale before u go drawing opinions like yours above as they are a myriad of rebasons why it might be.

Dyno figures vary a bit between different dyno and id be more interested in torque than power personally

you would need plots and lists of mods of the cars concerned as evidence to inspect.

And to answer your question bluntly the vf22 over a 30 is not the reason for ver 7s pulling more boost than me and less kw than me'.

[WRXONP]

Well blake ran his ver 7 on the same dyno as me . Same day . . Had 21 psI . And colder intake temps and he got 192. I got 199 on 15 psI

[Pappu1]

 WRXONP said:

Oh true that . Thanks for that info . Whats up with ver 7s pulling more boost than me and less kw and they even been re flashed ? A bit off topic I know just makes me a bit cautious to get a VF30

na bro thats not true

the peak boost is just a peak..

have a look at ur sheet and the v7 sheet from the day

u will see the v7 makes more avereage power - as in the power comes earlier - 191kw and stays longer at around that BUT boost falls to 14 where as u have 16 all the way till red line closer to where ur power is made

its abt how power is made than a peak figure in the hi rpm

on road the more average overall power will be a quicker car

do u know what i mean ? lol not too good in explaining lol

the sooner the power the comes the quicker the car will feel pulling away and will also pull away..

i can post up both dyno sheets if someone with better ability to explain wants to try hahaha

i cant do good typing and explaining hehehe

[WRXONP]

Then why not tune his boost curve properly ha ha so you see what it can really make

[funkytown]

 WRXONP said:

Well blake ran his ver 7 on the same dyno as me . Same day . . Had 21 psI . And colder intake temps and he got 192. I got 199 on 15 psI

like i said - there is a myriad of reasons. those are not normal results. a full set of dyno curves, including boost and AFRs, torque and power, a look at the ramp rates and tcf, and a physical inspection of each car, the mods listed and inspected, a physical check of the cam timing on each car, the turbo condition, and codes, and then you can start to compare.

point - need the FULL facts to make a decision. your just 'talking' about one discrete example and making a precedent from it which is the wrong way to go about it.

again - those results are not normal and a vf30 is a great turbo. comparable in peak power to a vf22 but has better spool charactoristics.

7kw difference is SFA anyway. Show me the torque curves.

[Pappu1]

ok will put graphs up

yea i made the boost fall sharply after peak as a safety thing lol

better safe than sorry i say

have seen another 20kw just by holding boost up but for the cars i tune i keep it low UNLESS specifically get requested to keep it up but then its up to the guy to make sure he uses good gas and all that

seen few cars blow cos after tune ppl bloody use wrong gas - my own brother did that to his old v6 as was tuned to 98 and then he put 95/91 grrr and block did not like

anyway, will upload the pics

note - blakes v7 was running -5degrees lower than normal tuned timing after 4krpm (done the day before as had bad spark plugs)

wud have hit over 200 as it is if had the proper tuned timiming and not bit retarted

[Pappu1]

compare the boost curves and then see what i mean abt the power etc

(funkytown maybe able to explain better than me lol)

brads dyno - vf23 fmic external running 16psi + exhaust - (197 peak)

blakes dyno - vf30 stock except exhaust (tuned but detuned by -5degrees for the day due to spark issues) - 192 peak

[funkytown]

lol on brief inspection (and totally ignoring -5degs of timing which is quite a lot) of the plot points that v7 owns at every point on the curve bar peak kw - which is nearly the peak of the top ones rev range.

typical sort of graph from a v7, on a lot eariler and more torquey.

Il try to superimpose the curves.

just a quick example the bottom one at 70k is making 147ish kw, the top one if we take the top like is 100kw (the lower red is only about 85kw). = the top one would get owned.

[Guest]

Whats 120km/h in rpm on a 6 speed ?

But the obvious reason why the vf30 is making similar power to the vf23 is the boost has been tuned to fall away.

Its not making 21psi at 6000rpm...

So at higher rpm they are making similar boost - hence similar power.

Massive ign retard does not help either

[funkytown]

 Qwerty said:

Whats 120km/h in rpm on a 6 speed ?

what gear?

6th would be about 3.5

[Pappu1]

runs done in 3rd gear

not sure what rpm ration is - heheh funky u will know better then me on that

(PS. blake did complain that the car feels slower after the retard... will get it back up one of these days bblake hahaha..next time we meet up ya)

[WRXONP]

Yeah well I know my car has allot more power now then that dyno day . . . I had a crappy bleed valve . . . . . But you cant really compare the torque of his to mine can you as ver 7 all ways seem to make more torque . . . Spencer had just a tad more torque than me and 30 kw less . . . Is this the vf30 or the AVCS ? ?

[funkytown]

 WRXONP said:

Yeah well I know my car has allot more power now then that dyno day . . . I had a crappy bleed valve . . . . . But you cant really compare the torque of his to mine can you as ver 7 all ways seem to make more torque . . . Spencer had just a tad more torque than me and 30 kw less . . . Is this the vf30 or the AVCS ? ?

dont be so defensive - you dont have to prove yours is faster than a v7. Those plots, at that point in time and with those mods his would faster, and making more power than yours across almost all of the rev range. Yours has highest peak power but you dont get it until right at the top of your rev range.

You can so compare the torque (engine torque) of the two engines - its fair game to compare a 2.0 ej to another.... even to a 2.5 ej but only to see the gains the 2.5 gives. anywho..

30kw less and more torque - i keep saying it. dont be so concerned with 'i have xxx kw'. Torque is where its at - thats what makes you fast. and its about consistent torque - not peak.

A turbo that spools earlier = will help low down torque

AVCS heads = will help low down torque

im not an expert on reading those rolling road plots but they look like uncorrected axle torque (edit: you can read it on the graph) so you also need to factor in the 6 speed, as the ratios are a lot shorter they give you higher axle torque readings.

[funkytown]

here is the two 'power' curves overlaid. i need corrected figures to do the torque.

can you see the massive hole between the green and blue until over 100?

This is why it, all things being equal, the green one will be faster. Its making more at every point except right at the top - so its long gone by the time you hit peak kw. And they will just shift gears and be right back in the power again.