Piggyback/standalone options for v5 wrx

[Guest]

Im looking at upgrading engine management to eliminate afm after my last set of mods. I will never run over 30psi and td06 would be the biggest turbo id ever run. max power id ever want would be 250kw atw so im not aiming for the moon. i also want something thats easy to install and retune again and again. i dont know a lot about engine management so any advice would be appreciated.

Options im looking at are:

safc: unsure as to whether safc will work with the v5 ecu because of the whole self learning business someone can confirm who knows please? i realize safc wont get rid of afm but just as a tuning tool could be good in between a full upgrade to stand alone.

map-ecu/greddy emanage piggyback: seems this will give me all the functionality of a link and get rid of afm while keeping the factory ecu. can anyone tune these?

link stand alone: i know this would be best but just dont have the cash for this option. also needs additional map sensor whereas piggyback ecu is inbuilt.

[Koom]

Link plug-ins pop up all the time for good prices. I personally don't think that the extra cost of a MAP sensor should be that much of a worry compared to getting it tuned properly anyway. If $150 is that big of a deal, then 250kw, 30psi, TD06 etc is going to be way out of the question anyway. The plug-ins can use all the factory sensors anyway.

[Guest]

goal is just to use engine management to get it running right now set up as it is. ive got the mods to get it to 200-220kw with a good tune. having headroom for later is just a precaution as you know how these things go i dont need 30psi etc at the moment just no sense limiting my self later. plugins for v5/6 normally come up for over a grand so by the time its tuned looking at 2g. reality comes into it im not big wednesday. i just want to know what the differences really are so i know my options.

[Johnnynz]

TBH I dont think you will achieve it reliably any other way for under 2k.

I spent a little over a thousand on my v5 plugin and I expect to spend $1500-$1800 to have it tuned and AFM disposed of. I expect to see anywhere 200kwatw+

[Guest]

all that the tuner will do is tune it which is anywhere from $600-1000. i have no problems fitting it doing piping etc its pretty much all done. wiring in a piggyback is no drama i can do that too. i dont see a lot of difference in the feature set of link over piggyback like map-ecu2. they do seem to have the capability from what ive read. everyone seems to go link coz thats whats been done many times before im keeping my options open.

[rex-leggy]

get link because down the track you'll end up putting one in so why do it twice.

i dont think the piggyback style ecu's have any of the safety features that the link can offer.

mods down the track are made easier ...... meth injection, intercooler water sprayers ect. link can control it all ;D

[Stoffa]

Just save for a G4, I got one for $1300 second hand. If you cant afford the money for a tune at the same time you could always just get a road tune done, Im about to run my new engine in on a road tune thats gonna cost me a few hundred dollars and if you find someone who knows what they're doing it can same you alot of time on the dyno as well

A possum link is very old technology now, they work fine but you'll get alot better results with a G4 as the possum links dont have as much resolution and dont run very well with bigger injectors.

All the tuners I've spoken to HATE emanages and have trouble getting good results with them.

Safc's only trick your ecu to get the fuel adjusted correctly, but do nothing with ignition timing, they should still be tuned on a dyno to get good results.

G4 is the latest technology with many built in saftey systems, if your coolant temp overheats it can be setup to lower your revlimit and turn on a warning light or buzzer. you can do the same with oil pressure and fuel pressure. They have one of the best boost control setups on the market built in and can run a 3 stage closed loop boost control.

They also have an intake temp sensor that makes minor adjustments in hot or cold weather.

With G4 you can do what I've done, I've got a v5 wrx with a v8 sti manifold running later model throttle body which frees up 3 outputs for idle control. and v7 coil on plug setup with top fed injectors so you can run ID1000's or similar.

You can even run AVCS heads with a little engine bay rewiring.

Listen to us we've been through it, Do it once do it right!!!

If you had a V7+ I would say just use the factory ECU and get it reflashed but on the V6 and earlier just get rid of it

[Guest]

ill probably be using speedsource always had good results and hes closest to home. all i really want is the dam thing to run right and get rid of the afm. its our spirited family wagon but i drive it daily so i had to play. nothing else will change under the bonnet at least for a few years anyway. also it will probably only see the strip a couple of times in its life and theres no track days up here. main thing is drivability but im just finding out the differences i like to know rather than just follow blindly but it looks like ill save for standalone.

which standalone options will get rid of afm? or can i tune around the relocation of afm and keep it? from what i have read its link g4 or mapecu

how does g2/3 compare to g4? theyre a lot cheaper to buy secondhand plug in would just be a bonus.

also im looking at this http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=466505709 it was in that grey v6 mprezu from nelson ways.

[Stoffa]

a power FC still uses a AFM, if your not changing anything then just keep the AFM and get the factory setup running as it should.

a g3 can be upgraded to g4 firmware, but if you have to buy a new loom for it you'll be getting close in price to a g4 and you still have to get it wired in.

Im getting mine rewired as we speak and its about 10 hours for an auto sparky, so $500-$1000 ontop of the purchase price....so we come back to just buying a g4 to start with

[Guest]

think ill give tp a ring on monday see what they think. i dont need any more features than standard ecu i just need it to run right with relocated afm. i think the new afm on car is now fucked too will replace next week and check.

i can wire in the ecu if it gets to hard i can get the workshop lads to lend a hand and its cheap labour when in house. i can get a g3 link wire in for around 1g with loom/map/intake sensor so its a bit cheaper than a plug in but there is that one kicking round on here for 1400 but for that price you may as well buy new so you have some sort of warranty. also would need to buy map and sensor for it on top so a lot more expensive than the g3 option but a lot less hassle.

[johnny5]

I don't know much but Im with the whole do it once do it right but sounds like you have good plans mate good luck and can't wait to see the results

[Stoffa]

you dont need to buy a map sensor, just use your factory one as it works fine and reads to about 28psi on a v5, you will need a intake temp sensor and a better boost solenoid with a g3 or a g4

[rex-leggy]

you dont need to buy a loom for the g3, one of the standard ecu plugs can be used .

ive upgraded the firmware on mine and there was just a couple of wiring changes .... to run a external map sensor

[Guest]

yea plan is to it right once but dont wanna go overkill just for a family car.

i did wonder about the stock map sensor so thats good to know. is there a genuine temp sensor that can be used like the gm map sensor? would be cheap as chips through work.

what do you mean by one of the standard plugs can be used? g2s cheap i would just buy one and get it upgraded if necessary. what did it cost for the upgrade?

[rex-leggy]

im not sure if the g2's can be upgraded ?

the g3 plug is the same as the plug (b136 i think) on a factory ecu for early subarus not sure about later ecu's but it would be easy to get from a wreckers

the g3 has a internal map sensor so you dont need to worry about the stock one . the upgrade was around $220 and i wouldn't have done it except i wanted more then 21 psi which on a family car you probably wont need that much

[Stoffa]

is it a family wagon or a td06 30psi monster?

if its just a family car you want a bit of extra power from I would just get a SAFC 2.

Im just to finish a build that got a little out of control, if I had my time again I'd flag all the mods just buy a G4 and get it tuned and drive it.

That way if it blows up you can just buy a 2.5 short block for under $3K throw it in and retune.

[Guest]

im pretty sure you can upgrade g2 to g3 firmware so im guessing you can upgrade g3 to g4 etc. ill be able to get the gm map cheap as through work anyway so no stress there.

its family wagon but if it gets out of hand later i dont want to fork out big bucks to do it all again. yea im considering all options for whats best. i just want to be able to drop the hammer and have power right across the range like you do straight after a tune. im hoping 200-220kw on the setup i have will net me a high 12 well thats the plan. if i have to add injectors etc later i will.

is there any reason why safc2 wont work with v5 ecu? ill still have to get it tuned coz i want to be rid of the 15psi cut otherwise i have to go to j2 ecu which is set up for different cams so would need a tune either way.

[Stoffa]

SAFC wont get rid of the boost cut, theres a few guys on CS who have swapped to a J2 without too much drama

[Guest]

yea thats what i mean like either ecu will need a tune to get rid of boost cut or to suit engine. im just waiting for a cheap j2 to pop up and ill try it just need to get to sort idle problem and get better economy as soon as i put that right foot down it drinks heavily.

safc, sti ecu and tune is a cheap option if my idle problem can be tuned out or for the same price i could get a mapecu2 or piggyback and tune if i wired in myself. pretty much after i ring ecutek and change afm ill have it sorted either way.

[Stoffa]

you cant "tune" a factory ecu to remove boost cut on any v5 ecu, but the boost cut on a J2 is very high (over 18psi). WRC developments are the only ones in NZ that can reflash a v5 ecu but you'l be paying $1000ish to get it done.

your idle problem will still be an idle problem on a new ecu, you need to fix your idle problem either way.

IMO you should keep researching I dont think you completely understand what your wanting to do.

a common problem v5's have is the idle stepper motor getting gummed up with oil vapor, I think if you remove your ICS valve and give it a clean you may fix your idle problem

and FYI I've never heard of MAP ECU's until you mentioned so not sure how well they work. Best to have this talk with your tuner anyway

[Guest]

i thiought tp could reflash them now too? unfotunatly ecutek anywhere is 1000 but i think it may have gone up to 1200 either way its pretty expensive it cost 600 last time for a standard evo ecu at speedsource and a link is about the same.

because ive twisted the turbo and shortened my whole intake everyone reckons that f*cks with the afm/idle problem. ive checked everything except a new afm. id like to know how people think it effects it and how they fixed it. ive checked everything everyones suggested vacuum leaks/fuel/ignition/tps/wiring/everything and the annoying thing is its intermittent. read this: http://www.clubsub.org.nz/forum/index.php/topic,29364.msg404863.html#msg404863 ill clean the icv now and see what happens im sure its afm.

i think mapecu is getting more common driven performance sell them and im pretty sure anyone can tune them. its just a standard 7 wire piggyback with internal map/speed control/maf elimination/ignition/timing/boost/speed cut/everything a link does really as it retains factory sensors also. big thing is no massive set up like a stand alone and very easy to install. this is the base model http://www.drivenperformance.co.nz/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=602

basically if i can fix the idle pproblem it gets a hell of a lot easier to work out what to do. the afm is not a restriction coz its 3.5" and my intakes 3".

[Stoffa]

sorry missed your other thread, just posted in there

[Guest]

just hopped off the phone from wrc developments in napier. im fine to use the standard ecu will cost about $950 to tune need it for two days...i live in dargaville they would remove boost cut tune to suit atmo bov and funky intake pipe. should run mint and net considerable gains.

talked to tp yesterday and they dont have flash 99 and arent getting it as no demand. best bet to trip to napier they said as i expected, power fc or link. he wasnt too keen on the piggyback idea but said safc was a cheap option and would work but not the best as expected.

really looking at a plug in link and tune as theres not much difference between tripping 1200ks to napier and back in a car thats running rich as f*ck, tune and accommodation etc on top.

either way ill be doing a walbro and cleaning up/lengthening the intake pipe route before tune.

[Stoffa]

Ask how much to retune next time you make mods. might charge the same again.

[Guest]

im sure its cheaper all tuners ive talked to are but if i do more mods id probably go link anyway as it would involve bigger turbo. this isnt a drag queen its just a family car and only need one fast car in the family.

once my intakes all sorted how i like it ill see how my stalling issue stands, if its still there and i can nail it back to afm placement issues it will be link time.