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Increased Turbo spool time - Dieing turbo?


pl0x
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Hi all

 

Wondering if anyone has experienced what is currently plaguing my car, or has any ideas that I haven't tested or checked.

It was making full boost around 4.5k, now doesn't come on till 5.5k-6k and is much lagger between gears. Can't hear any untoward noises on or off boost, AFRs & timing are fine according to the logs - can send to someone if they want to have a look. Feels ok once it is on boost.

 

I'm picking it is the turbo bearings - it has play in both directions (I'm not sure how much is too much with these), when spinning it by hand you can hear it catching at times. I can't hear it whining when on boost which is making me question it, genuine Garrett, getting plenty of oil, not surging, 50sec to stop spinning after turning car off.

 

Tested - exhaust leaks (towel up the exhaust with car running on hoist), waste gate not leaking/opening early, not the boost solenoid (still same when free boosting), intake leak pressure tested twice (bov has very minor leak, icv removed and blocked for sake of testing, intercooler joiners tightened/replaced), cam gears checked and haven't appeared to have slipped.

Only next step i can think of is turbo off to check turbine then potentiality rebuild or change/upgrade turbo.

 

Bit of background on the car:

Forged ej20

Link G4

Franklin 272 cam

Adjustable cam gears

Fmic/flipped/remote icv

Garrett 3076

Genuine tial wastegate

Genuine gfb bov

880cc injectors, walbro + relay

Semi-tuned headers (unsure of brand, x force maybe, These), twisted up pipe, 3" exhaust.

 

(edited for better england)

Edited by pl0x
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Garrett should have the tolerances for radial and axial play online.

 

But then you would need a dial indicator.

 

What sort of intake are you running to the Turbo, any chance it maybe being sucked in at all?

 

Your exhaust manifold has - at least in the past - failed at the up-pipe coupling from my own experience. But perhaps you should look at the flex join for any kind of collapse, if you have not found a leak.

Edited by BC5RA
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I think the next course of action is pull turbo out to check turbine and play, so up pipe can follow behind that for inspection.

Fairly new K&N pod filter, so not really. Blades look in good condition.

 

I would love to find the flex join faulty, much happier to replace than turbo.

 

The engine/turbo has always been slightly down in power so I wonder if there is something more at play. Originally (previous owner, I brought his race car and transplanted everything) made something like 250kw atw and tuned suggested it needed adjustable cam gears to dial the cams in. Next time round, with adjustable cam gears (& different tuner too), 282kw @ 23psi. Back pressure and EGT checks have been on the to do list for a while.

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Flexis a common issue and can destroy the turbine.

 

Who tuned it last time?

 

Happy to take a look at tune and logs not that I know S***. What wideband are you running?

 

Those headers are S*** and often leak at the up pipe seal thing.

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Dtech tuned it the latest time. Will pull the turbo off tonight but pretty sure it is at fault, talking with a few more people it shouldn't have as much play as it does.

 

Was leaking there originally but replaced/fixed it.

 

Maybe I should look at changing headers before a re-tune for whatever turbo I end up choosing as a replacement. Wanting straight bolt in, so another Garrett seems the likely choice. Anyone have any experience between gt3076 to gtx3071 or gtx3076?

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Found the issue after pulling the turbo off. It was the up pipe flexy collapsing internally, unfortunately that means wires and metal have been through the turbine.

 

Likely option from here, new gtx3071 and band aid that up pipe (cut out flexy and weld solid) until I find a decent set of headers. Keep current rear housing (.63AR 4 bolt).

 

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10 minutes ago, pl0x said:

Found the issue after pulling the turbo off. It was the up pipe flexy collapsing internally, unfortunately that means wires and metal have been through the turbine.

 

Likely option from here, new gtx3071 and band aid that up pipe (cut out flexy and weld solid) until I find a decent set of headers. Keep current rear housing (.63AR 4 bolt).

 

 

Curious, is the actual CHRA okay?

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Pass but i'm picking not
Still spins freely, did have some "catching" feeling at times but I'm guessing that was it actually catching on the bits inside the exhaust housing.

Yet to get the exhaust housing off for a closer look at turbine, looks good from the back but appears the blades are now uneven. I assume the bearings could have taken a beating with the turbine being hit by a significant piece of metal while spinning at those rpms.

 

15645001_1515105785170226_1233220252_n_z

That's a folded up piece of metal, unfolded:

15645589_1515106101836861_1186464622_n_z

Edited by pl0x
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These headers should be shamed at every opportunity, and made known of their lack of quality and potential damage to Turbos in the wider community.

 

This is the next in a long list of times these headers have F***ed up that i know of.

 

Sorry to see.

Edited by BC5RA
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1 hour ago, BC5RA said:

These headers should be shamed at every opportunity, and made known of their lack of quality and potential damage to Turbos in the wider community.

 

This is the next in a long list of times these headers have F***ed up that i know of.

 

Sorry to see.

 

Agreed theyre S*** but you shouldnt run a flexi pre turbo on any application. If you have to get a proper one that doesnt have a weave inside. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just to update, went for gtx3071 into my current .63 rear housing. Solid welded the up pipe, extended and added flexy into the downpipe.

 

Spool time seems similar to what it use to be, 4.5k-ish. I thought it would improve spool time more so I want to carry out some back pressure testing and get an exhaust temp gauge.

AFRs appear a touch leaner (0.1-.02) so Ill touch those up.

 

There may be a very small crack where the headers merge, same place as the last set I replaced. Can't see or feel anything but there is a slight noise when under the car like the sound of one header leaking. So new headers are on the list.

 

It will need a proper retune at some point but i just want to drive it for the time being, looking at a few future mods to get over 300atw - new/bigger/better IC core, slightly bigger (.72?) rear housing and water/meth injection.

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