Front mount pipeing setup/design

[SubLeggy]

hey guys,

well im heading into the zone of going front mount. im going with the size of 550x230x65-550 core size for my front mount. im looking at going my own way with the piping instead of going with the piping that comes with the actual front mount. what are designs/ways that i could do/use to decrease the lag/time that it takes for the air to get to the turbo/engine without having to flip the intake manifold? will be flipping the front mount upside down.

im aiming for 220kws, have an engine that will handle that including a few supporting mods that will help as well to get to that target. Car is an 89rs

any help/suggestions would be great.

Cheers

[MercuryFree]

flip the intercooler

[SubLeggy]

 MercuryFree said:

flip the intercooler

whoops i forgot to mention that i would be doing that. have updated the post.

[funkytown]

flip the manifold?

[smithcd]

 

what are designs/ways that i could do/use to decrease the lag/time that it takes for the air to get to the turbo/engine <b>without having to flip the intake manifold?</b>

Was going to suggest that too lol. Out of curiosity, why wouldn't you want to flip it?

[vorigan]

this is easy stay top mount ive pushed 290kw wheel on a top mount and if you dont want to increase the threshold dont bother with a front mount, show doesnt always equal go.

[soopersubaru]

Fit a Soopercooler ;D....No lag increase issues

This could start a debate. ;D...Oh well.Nothin ventured nothin gained i suppose. :-*

[SubLeggy]

 vorigan']

this is easy stay top mount ive pushed 290kw wheel on a top mount and if you dont want to increase the threshold dont bother with a front mount, show doesnt always equal go.

ok cheers for that information there. ill have to find a top mount as im only water to air atm.

[quote name='smithcd said:

quote]what are designs/ways that i could do/use to decrease the lag/time that it takes for the air to get to the turbo/engine <b>without having to flip the intake manifold?</b>

Was going to suggest that too lol. Out of curiosity, why wouldn't you want to flip it?

i guess i wouldnt want to flip it because i wouldnt want the hassle even though im told its quite simple to do

[soopersubaru]

soopercooler. ;)......go on give it a go......best top mount WAIC for over 200 Kw (subaru specific!)

[pl0x]

Can anyone show proof or first hand experience (back to back fitting) that a front mount adds "lag"?

A good/bigger top mount and mucking around/modified bits to make it fit can cost up to or more than the same amount as a front mount

& no offence soopersubaru but soopercooler again more $$$$ than a front mount

[Stoffa]

I found absolutly no lag on my v5 with VF28, but the boost threshold was a little higher as it has to charge the whole system.

[Pappu1]

I went from a top mount to front mount

Be hard to say I hav a lot more lag now

Seems and drives abt the same

Another comparison - my brother and I have the exact v7sti and mods but he had a front mount and I had a top mount (till few weeks ago anyway)

Back To back driving in both cars u cant really notice any huge lag in the front moun system

thT was a major factor why I went front mount as I too was afraid of lag etc

If u really really want To see it then yes u will find a difference but for the most part it's not noticeable

Maybe Ppl who have never had back to back test complain of huge lag or perhaps Ppl who have super sensitive assometer based g meter

[Koom]

I found that when I put a front mount on that I could turn the gain up alot more in my boost control so that the electronics had a more aggressive response which ended up with the threshold actually being lower by a couple hundred rpm and just as stable once at full boost. Where is was quite unstable with higher gain and the topmount.

So overall, I got better response/threshold from the front mount.

[vorigan]

the biggest thing that hurts threshold is pipping size at 1 bar air speed is close to the speed of sound, once the pipes are full its not an issue but having a pee shooter vf29 filling a 3" pipe which can support 1000hp you can see why the car feels flat and lacks responce.

A 2" pipe will support 500hp every noticed the pipe size on a WRC car? around 1.5" and they dont go too bad do they?

[soopersubaru]

 pl0x said:

Can anyone show proof or first hand experience (back to back fitting) that a front mount adds "lag"?

A good/bigger top mount and mucking around/modified bits to make it fit can cost up to or more than the same amount as a front mount

& no offence soopersubaru but soopercooler again more $$$$ than a front mount

Price not that high.

Happy to fit one or two at cost price.Approx $500 to $600 depending on intake manifold currently fitted.

Two heat exchangers and a pump required.

No prob with fitting no cutting of body/rails etc. Will give a sleepa look to vehicle. you can remove bonnet scoop if you desire.( stops car thief looking at it!)

FMIC tops for track. Due too high car speed.

WAIC far better for road/round town for keeping IAT lower.

[Stoffa]

thats a bit better than $2000

[SubLeggy]

 Stoffa said:

thats a bit better than $2000

thats expensive ;D

[soopersubaru]

 SubLeggy']

[quote name='Stoffa said:

thats a bit better than $2000

/quote]

thats expensive ;D

MM not really

Reconfigure top mount $250..HPC thermal coat $200

Front radiator (new) $215

Pump $143

Intake manifold HPC thermal coat$350

Pipework $150

Then fitting labour/gaskets for intake. + GST! $ 1500 reasonable retail??

As fitted to my car/Wagon that is.

[vorigan]

try procoat half the price of hpc trying using methonal for a coolant then youll see some major intake temp drops

[Johnnynz]

Ya know im right on the verge of fitting a FMIC at $500 I would ALMOST give your Soopercooler a go just to let the uber nerds on here have some data and answer the bloody question once and for all...

[SubLeggy]

 Johnnynz said:

Ya know im right on the verge of fitting a FMIC at $500 I would ALMOST give your Soopercooler a go just to let the uber nerds on here have some data and answer the bloody question once and for all...

lol i was going to say the same thing lol

[soopersubaru]

 Johnnynz said:

Ya know im right on the verge of fitting a FMIC at $500 I would ALMOST give your Soopercooler a go just to let the uber nerds on here have some data and answer the bloody question once and for all...

What info are you seeking?

[soopersubaru]

 vorigan said:

try procoat half the price of hpc trying using methonal for a coolant then youll see some major intake temp drops

As a fuel!? true. As a heat transfer fluid probably not. Methanol not the best either costs too much for the energy released...Ethanol a better option.....Although good old petrol is still the best for $ per Km

[Johnnynz]

 soopersubaru']

[quote name='Johnnynz said:

Ya know im right on the verge of fitting a FMIC at $500 I would ALMOST give your Soopercooler a go just to let the uber nerds on here have some data and answer the bloody question once and for all...

/quote]

What info are you seeking?

Personally im not seeking any, from what I have seen and with my limited capacity for understanding all of this data already available I conclude a FMIC is the easiest, most cost effective method for upgrading from my TMIC.

However some solid data logged with your setup vs. a FMIC would be great so once and for all it would be clear what does what better.

However my application would require longer lengths of time spent cooling and im not confident in your setup could provide that. Also if i wanted a bigger than stock WAIC I would just make one...

However direct comparative data would be great to see purely to know which works better. And before anyone throws that "one is better for certain applications" crap I only buy that in so far as if one is completely incapable of a task while the other is capable.

Sadly for your setup you admit its not good for race applications but is for street, however an FMIC or even a larger air cooled TMIC is suitable for both race and street applications and is not incapable of delivering adequately in both situations... However yours is.

[vorigan]

 soopersubaru']

[quote name='vorigan said:

try procoat half the price of hpc trying using methonal for a coolant then youll see some major intake temp drops

/quote]

As a fuel!? true. As a heat transfer fluid probably not. Methanol not the best either costs too much for the energy released...Ethanol a better option.....Although good old petrol is still the best for $ per Km

used it many times before as a coolant never had an issue and meth can be brought for less than $2 a litre ethonal cost alot more, we use to use meth in the coolant systems in karts its all in how you use it.