Anyone running on E85 fuel ?

[dimin]

Just wondering if anyone has given E85 a go in their Subaru ? All properly tuned of course. Thinking of getting big injectors and pump and tuning to it in my V9 Sti, seeing as its on pump here in Hamilton. Seems to be very popular in the US, capable of providing substantial gains over regular gasoline thanks to its cooler burning, great knock resistance, etc. Some even getting over 400hp with a simple turbo and fuel system upgrade and well tuned, alot still running stock intakes, intercoolers, and engine internals even. I would personally have a map tuned to 98 and map tuned to E85, and flash in the map for which fuel I decide to run.

The Gull website states it shouldnt be run in most Subarus, assuming this is because it needs to be specifically tuned for? Heard it can eat fuel lines, rubber seals etc, but if many people round the world are running it in their cars with no issues I dont see the problem there, especially with the newer age vehicles.

Opinions and thoughts ?

[ryn]

I think there is a thread somewhere about this, have a look in the search. I know there was a discussion recently.

[Pappu1]

it killed my 2002 mazda6 fuel pump on usage (was e10) even tho the website says was safe to use

never agin am using gull fuel i highly doubt 2004ish jdm cars will have e10/e85 compliant systems (i cud be wrong so do check but best to start with e10 and run for a while and see if issues and if not then go e85 - wont need retune on e10 on stock setup (again accordiong to gull))

[Joker]

http://www.subaru.co.nz/about/environment

 

Ethanol suitability for Subarus

Most Subarus purchased new in New Zealand since 1990 are capable of running on the ethanol blended fuel now being introduced to the local market.

However any Japanese domestic specification models which have been imported here second hand (i.e.). second hand Japanese imports - should not be run on the ethanol blended fuel.

These cars are only suitable for 3 percent blended fuels. The fuel being sold in New Zealand has a 10 percent ethanol blend.

The 10 percent ethanol blended fuel could cause damage to the fuel line, fuel injector sealing, fuel pump or fuel regulator of these second hand Japanese imports. The fumes from the blended fuel after combustion can also have a harmful effect on the catalytic converter, the exhaust gas regulator and the muffler.

Those Subarus which can use the 10 percent ethanol blended fuel have a 17 digit VIN number beginning with either JF1 or JF2. The VIN number can be found at the bottom of the central door pillar on the passenger’s side of the car or in the engine bay.

The second hand Japanese imports which should not use the ethanol blended fuel have VIN numbers starting with 7A8.

A small number of models sold new in New Zealand cannot use the 10 percent blended fuel. They are.-

Legacy RS, Legacy GT, Legacy GTB, Legacy RSK and Legacy Blitzen from 1990 onwards; the Impreza STI from 1997 onwards and the Forester STI. They do not have JF1 or JF2 VIN numbers.

Owners who are not sure if they can use the ethanol-blended fuel in their car should consult their nearest Subaru Authorised Dealer.

 

In Summary

DO NOT USE Ethanol Blended Fuel - E5 or E10 if your car is:

A Subaru with VIN Number that starts with 7A8, or

Second hand Japanese imported Subaru, or

A New Zealand New Subaru that is any of these models:

Legacy RS, Legacy GT, Legacy GTB, Legacy RSK and Legacy Blitzen

Impreza STI

Forester STI

CAN USE Ethanol Blended Fuel - E5 or E10

Only New Zealand new Subarus models 1990 onwards with a VIN number beginning with JF1 or JF2 may use E5 or E10 blended fuels

Note: The VIN number is a 17-digit number that can be found at the bottom of the central door pillar on the passenger's side of the car or in the engine bay.

For more information relating to ethanol biofuel, visit http://www.eeca.govt.nz/renewable-energy/biofuels/index.html

[subieboy]

 SP00N said:

it killed my 2002 mazda6 fuel pump on usage (was e10) even tho the website says was safe to use

never agin am using gull fuel i highly doubt 2004ish jdm cars will have e10/e85 compliant systems (i cud be wrong so do check but best to start with e10 and run for a while and see if issues and if not then go e85 - wont need retune on e10 on stock setup (again accordiong to gull))

Not picking an argument, but I doubt the cause of the dead fuel pump was related to the ethanol content in the fuel. I have personally used ethanol added fuels for a number of years now, hell even my GTB has been running it since it was available.

My company Mazda 6 only ever got filled with ethanol based fuel... 45000Km later it still s gong strong.

I have used it in Toyota Camry's, Aurions, Ford Falcons, XR6, commodore's, Rav 4's, Hyundai getz... In a previous company we ran Holden Rodeo's and elusively ran it on ethanol enriched fuels (part of Qld Govt contract requirement). I also know that the Qld Government vehicles are mandated by an act of state parliament to use Ethanol enriched fuels... They run everything from Merc ambo's to BMW?holden/ford/toyota/mazda/hyundai/kia/subaru/etc in their fleet...

[dimin]

Had read the Subaru blurb about how its not recommended for any of their vehicles apart from the select few NZ new ones, due to possible damage to rubber components.

However, I plan to be running a Walbro pump, apparently these are fine with E85. Also will be running split rails with Siemens 875cc injectors, and an aftermarket pressure reg, both fine with E85. Which basically leaves the rubber hosing I guess that may not be compatible with the fuel.

I take it not many people on here run it in their road cars yet though in NZ, just thought id see if anyones had any first hand experience in particular the later model (V7 and up) Subarus, of which seem to be very popular overseas running E85.

[vorigan]

its also a great fuel to make dyno operators look like legends

[Guest]

Pretty sure mates V7 runs it tuned by gary. 215kw atw 36mm restrictor. No problems yet. Real cold on startup...is that e85? Has to rev the fuck out of it to get it to move.

[sultan]

Has to rev it with a restrictor? Somethings not right

[vorigan]

 evowrx said:

Pretty sure mates V7 runs it tuned by gary. 215kw atw 36mm restrictor. No problems yet. Real cold on startup...is that e85? Has to rev the bother out of it to get it to move.

215kw with a restrictor?

thats pretty bloody outstanding its not easy to get over 200 using a 36mm top result

[dimin]

 evowrx said:

Pretty sure mates V7 runs it tuned by gary. 215kw atw 36mm restrictor. No problems yet. Real cold on startup...is that e85? Has to rev the bother out of it to get it to move.

Sounds about right, cold starts can be difficult on E85 but once it warms up theres no issue.

[Guest]

E85 runs cold so on start need to rev to keep it from stalling not to make power. Falls over pretty quick after 5-6k somewhere I think. Forged V7 sti with 26# cams/VF36? Know hes putting a VF36 on it now anyway to replace what he had as was getting sad. Think he mightve given you a call about fixing old one steve.

[Koom]

 vorigan']

[quote name='evowrx said:

Pretty sure mates V7 runs it tuned by gary. 215kw atw 36mm restrictor. No problems yet. Real cold on startup...is that e85? Has to rev the bother out of it to get it to move.

/quote]

215kw with a restrictor?

thats pretty bloody outstanding its not easy to get over 200 using a 36mm top result

Really I would have thought you'd get more than 200kw easily with a 36mm?

I've always seen 200kw for a 33mm and 36mm should usually get 215-225kw. In both the Subaru's and EVO's we've run on both Link G4's and Motec's and anything from BP98 to E85.

[dimin]

Just thought Id update this.

After lots of researching, it seems alot of the corrosion issues and warnings of not to run ethanol in Subarus is pure myth. So decided to give it a crack myself. Replace all the rubber hoses in the engine bay with Gates biofuel compatible line, reused the stock fuel rails with Siemens 875cc injectors, plumbed parallel rails, Tomei FPR, and Walbro pump. Only stock rubber hoses are short length between the hard pipes and fuel tank, so will keep an eye on those to ensure there isnt any damage over time. Put a TD05 20G turbo on while I was at it.

Drained the tank of 98 and filled it with Gull Force Pro, quick rescale of the injectors and it fired up and ran perfect. Took it to Gary Capper yesterday to get some power out of it and pulled a nice 250kw ATW. Lots of torque too. Only mods other than the fuelling and slightly bigger turbo is a 3in exhaust. Still on stock TMIC, intake and ECU. Very happy with the outcome it drives like a stock car on the E85, very smooth and the factory ECU controls everything nicely, whilst retaining all the factory good stuff like knock control, etc.

Lucky for me its on pump here in Hamilton, be good if its rolled out to some more Gull stations round the country, but I can flash the ECU back to my 98 map anytime and run that if I need to travel long distance from home.

[Guest hate-evoz]

well played sir

[Stoffa]

awesome, there I guy I know in welli who\'s running an GM ethanol content sensor from the "dual fuel" setup on a VE commodore, it measures the percentage of ethanol before it hits your fuel rails.

The sensor must just have a 0-5v output, its wired to the link and I guess it uses a 4d fuel map so if he\'s broke he can run E10 or if he\'s flush use proper race e85 and doesn\'t need to worry about emptying his tank.

It got a small mention in the latest NZPC magazine

Pretty Cool!!!

I\'ve set my fuel system up to take it but wont even think about it till E85 is on the pump everywhere.

Im at 240kw using about 60% injector duty cycle so loads of room to move.

[Pappu1]

how much boost u running?

looks like a good outcome in the end

well done

[Guest]

Talking to tony whiter on the issue...the problem they had was the E85 stripped the varnish shit off the inside of the tank and clogged the injectors/filter. Killed a few drift cars rotors and nissan, gaz at least one engine. Changing your fuel filter often helps watch that too. Maybe pull it off and cut it open after 500km or something theyre cheap as chips.

[Kiwi_Fozze]

Or, if race car, build a nice ally fuel tank

[dimin]

 SP00N']

how much boost u running?

looks like a good outcome in the end

well done

Running around 1.5 bar peak, tapering back a little towards redline, the stock intake system is choking it somewhat ! But no dramas as I achieved the power I was after, so yep good outcome.

[quote name='evowrx said:

Talking to tony whiter on the issue...the problem they had was the E85 stripped the varnish s*** off the inside of the tank and clogged the injectors/filter. Killed a few drift cars rotors and nissan, gaz at least one engine. Changing your fuel filter often helps watch that too. Maybe pull it off and cut it open after 500km or something theyre cheap as chips.

Have read about this happening, have put a brand new filter on, and will most likely put a new one again after a couple of tanks of E85. Will slice one open and see what effect there has been as well.

Hoping they will roll it out to more stations around the place, I rang Gull and was told Pukekohe is the next in line for it at a new station theyre building there. So sounds like they only will implement it on new sites. Suppose its hard to justify installing all new tank and pump etc for a fuel thats not popular yet.

[Guest]

Swing you a bulk buy on 10 filters lol. Change them with each tank of gas...

[Lith]

 Stoffa said:

awesome, there I guy I know in welli who\'s running an GM ethanol content sensor from the "dual fuel" setup on a VE commodore, it measures the percentage of ethanol before it hits your fuel rails.

The sensor must just have a 0-5v output, its wired to the link and I guess it uses a 4d fuel map so if he\'s broke he can run E10 or if he\'s flush use proper race e85 and doesn\'t need to worry about emptying his tank.

Random what you find when lurking around the internet He\'s a mate of mine, the setup works nicely - will run on straight petrol all the way to E90 and anywhere in between. The sensor actually sits in the return line from the fuel rail and it returns the temperature and ethanol content measured using pulse width and duty cycle.

The comments by others earlier about cold start and power dropping off aren\'t very accurate either, in many cases you can actually make the power hold on better in the higher rpm - especially if it is an octane limited setup and cold start can be made to work fairly well, we don\'t have the most extreme climate so realistically you should at worst maybe have a couple of extra cranks before the engine fires up from dead cold. After that it should drive like "normal".

It is great stuff, smells awesome and makes more power everywhere - can make an otherwise simple setup seem like a serious weapon... just have to make sure the fuel system is up to spec and keep an eye on the fuel filter etc.

[gotasuby]

 titian said:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=803341

As i am starting to run my 3.0 outback on this superb fuel I have posted a relevant link here.

The first two pages are up dated. The other 150 odd are also relevant here and there.

There are significant benefits in using alcohol based fuels in Subarus of all years!

Seems to going really well for me! ;) More power at 30% mix! Same $ economy too! Ya win win! ;D ;D

Have you retuned to suit? And are you sing e85 or some other mix?

[Kiwi_Fozze]

No one has definitions for titans ecu... i\'ve tried inheriting tables through ecu explorer, some are close but not right, and no one on the rom raider forums have. been able to help so far

[gotasuby]

We run e 85 and the rally car and i will agree to its an amazing fuel. We had to go much larger fuel system and on id1000 injectors are getting 85% and on AV gas 63‰. But torque down low is phenomenal. Also how much cooler it burns is amazing. Exhaust tip is cold after driving.