Where to from here...

[nismovzr2003]

 evowrx said:

If it was me Id just bolt the whole lot into a CDB and run centre thrust. Will pretty much only cost you the tear down/gaskets/cdb.

Yeah this is what I was thinking. At the end of the day if I\'m seeing 319kw @ 26psi on 98 pump gas, I\'m reaching near on peak boost for the GT3082R from viewing Steve Murch\'s spec sheets. Will the addition of the cams see an increase in power, or just better response if tuned properly? Is adding adjustable cam gears a good idea? As mentioned, looking to purchase steel p1 cam gears and having them converted.

[Guest]

 nismovzr2003']

[quote name='evowrx said:

If it was me Id just bolt the whole lot into a CDB and run centre thrust. Will pretty much only cost you the tear down/gaskets/cdb.

/quote]

Yeah this is what I was thinking. At the end of the day if I\'m seeing 319kw @ 26psi on 98 pump gas, I\'m reaching near on peak boost for the GT3082R from viewing Steve Murch\'s spec sheets. Will the addition of the cams see an increase in power, or just better response if tuned properly? Is adding adjustable cam gears a good idea? As mentioned, looking to purchase steel p1 cam gears and having them converted.

Steve Murch\'s spec sheets?

[nismovzr2003]

 evowrx']

[quote name='evowrx said:

If it was me Id just bolt the whole lot into a CDB and run centre thrust. Will pretty much only cost you the tear down/gaskets/cdb.

/quote]

Yeah this is what I was thinking. At the end of the day if I\'m seeing 319kw @ 26psi on 98 pump gas, I\'m reaching near on peak boost for the GT3082R from viewing Steve Murch\'s spec sheets. Will the addition of the cams see an increase in power, or just better response if tuned properly? Is adding adjustable cam gears a good idea? As mentioned, looking to purchase steel p1 cam gears and having them converted.

Steve Murch\'s spec sheets?

Well not his own spec sheets, he had spec sheets for the various Garrett turbos, he showed me the one for the 3082R, it pretty much max\'s out at 30 psi so I\'m getting pretty close to that. I was hoping by upgrading the cam\'s not only would it give me better response but also be able to achieve the same or similar performance but at a lower boost level. Am I correct in thinking this?

[nismovzr2003]

If i look to just swap out blocks at this stage, i.e. replace ODB with CDB and reuse existing internals, could I get away with reusing bearings or would it be best to replace these, I\'m assuming it would be best to replace these anyway. I assume the deck\'s would need resurfacing and the bores honed to my 92.5mm pistons? Anything else that I\'ve missed? Will this block be strong enough for 320-350kw?

[rex-leggy]

id be replacing the rods with I beams while you have everything apart.

well id just sell the shortblock and build another which is what ive done .

center thrust cranks are a dime a doz and extra cost of a set of pistons compared to time

I wouldnt trust h beams at 350kw let alone 320kw

[nismovzr2003]

 rex-leggy said:

id be replacing the rods with I beams while you have everything apart.

well id just sell the shortblock and build another which is what ive done .

center thrust cranks are a dime a doz and extra cost of a set of pistons compared to time

I wouldnt trust h beams at 350kw let alone 320kw

Whats the main difference between H-Beam and I-Beam rods? So you reckon buy a CDB, I-Beam rods, pistons (92.5mm?) and go from there. How much would my existing ODB be worth? What would I be looking at to build a CDB?

Thanks for the help.

[funkytown]

so i think you\'re asking a LOT of rather \'simple thinking\' questions..

for the power and stage you want to take this thing you REALLY aught to sit down with a serious engine builder and work though the right approach. Its going to take someone really smart and competent to build a 350+ build that lasts for more than 20minutes.

Taking lots of odds and sods ideas from the internet isnt going to net you a good result.

You need to have a whole of concept discussion about what your trying to acheive. IMO. which includes sensible turbo discussion..

for example above -

 nismovzr2003 said:

I was hoping by upgrading the cam\'s not only would it give me better response but also be able to achieve the same or similar performance but at a lower boost level. Am I correct in thinking this?

Yer... NO. shifts power the right, not left.

some bad misleading assumptions i\'ve read above.

[nismovzr2003]

 funkytown']

so i think you\'re asking a LOT of rather \'simple thinking\' questions..

for the power and stage you want to take this thing you REALLY aught to sit down with a serious engine builder and work though the right approach. Its going to take someone really smart and competent to build a 350+ build that lasts for more than 20minutes.

Taking lots of odds and sods ideas from the internet isnt going to net you a good result.

You need to have a whole of concept discussion about what your trying to acheive. IMO. which includes sensible turbo discussion..

for example above -

[quote name='nismovzr2003 said:

I was hoping by upgrading the cam\'s not only would it give me better response but also be able to achieve the same or similar performance but at a lower boost level. Am I correct in thinking this?

/quote]

Yer... NO. shifts power the right, not left.

some bad misleading assumptions i\'ve read above.

I thought with the use of adjustable cam gears you could set it up to allow for more bottom end torque in comparison to high end performance?

If I was to settle for say 300kw, would my existing internals (center thrust crank, eagle H-Beam Rods, Wiseco 92.5mm Pistons) used within a CDB, would this be a safe and reliable build? I\'m not after huge power, all I really want is something thats going to last and at the moment I don\'t believe the current ODB is safe and reliable.

[funkytown]

safe and reliable are a relative thing. no easy answer.

Personally proved the ODB do not like >250wkw. semis a bit moreup to 275-280wkw, CDB or doweled / sleeves for 300+.

if you\'re after 300 odd half of the bits you\'ve talked about here is pointless. You know im making ~320ish on v3 sti heads, factory cams and 2.2l right.. GTX3076r.

a gt3076 or gt3082 on a 2l is HORRIBLE. a gt3076 or gt3082 on a 2l with CAMS is going to be EPICLY HORRIBLE.

a gtx3071r on a 2l motor i know (and very mild cams is making ~300odd)

[boon]

 funkytown said:

safe and reliable are a relative thing. no easy answer.

Personally proved the ODB do not like >250wkw. semis a bit moreup to 275-280wkw, CDB or doweled / sleeves for 300+.

if you\'re after 300 odd half of the bits you\'ve talked about here is pointless. You know im making ~320ish on v3 sti heads, factory cams and 2.2l right.. GTX3076r.

a gt3076 or gt3082 on a 2l is HORRIBLE. a gt3076 or gt3082 on a 2l with CAMS is going to be EPICLY HORRIBLE.

a gtx3071r on a 2l motor i know (and very mild cams is making ~300odd)

While I agree with most of what\'s being said here, in terms of reliability he is talking about a track car that gets driven hard.

From what I\'ve read/seen, semi-closed is OK to ~320wkw at least on a street car.

[funkytown]

refer to my first statement. "safe and reliable are a relative thing. no easy answer."

[nismovzr2003]

 funkytown said:

refer to my first statement. "safe and reliable are a relative thing. no easy answer."

Safe and reliable daily driver that has the ability to be used on track days for short duration racing, i.e 5-10 lap sort of stuff. If this helps at all when I\'m referring to safe and reliable.

Cheers.

[titian]

 nismovzr2003']

[quote name='funkytown said:

refer to my first statement. "safe and reliable are a relative thing. no easy answer."

/quote]

Safe and reliable daily driver that has the ability to be used on track days for short duration racing, i.e 5-10 lap sort of stuff. If this helps at all when I\'m referring to safe and reliable.

Cheers.

To do this:- Do what I did. Build the bottom end for 600 hp. Then run it at 300. Reliability and good power/fun to be had.

See my link below for details.

[funkytown]

if thats what you want put aside 20k.

not joking.

[titian]

 funkytown said:

if thats what you want put aside 20k.

not joking.

Ah Yes True! No good power will be had without good funding ;D

[nismovzr2003]

Ok so putting huge power aside plus the fact I\'ve got limited funds. If the vehicle is being used as a daily driver with the odd bit of track here an there, would I still be better off replacing ODB to CDB whilst using my existing internals? I\'m not after a full blown race car, just something that\'s got more power but with more reliability, hence changing blocks.

If I use all my existing bolt-ons, internals from current block and change to CDB will 280-300kw be more acceptable towards being more reliable?

Its been mentioned that my GT3082R is a horrible choice of turbo for the 2L, even worse so with after market cam\'s, if this is correct what would be a better choice to achieve 280-300kw without running massive boost? Previously mention was the GTX3071R?

[titian]

As Above pal ;) What you are seeking will not be achieved without good funds as Funky has kindly pointed out.

If its 280 to 300 Kw that you are after $20K approximately will be required to achieve reliable operation.

The "New" CDB you want to up grade will require good machining to achieve a hi spec (Blueprinting) so that hi powers can be run. ;D

It a simple thing to do and achieve. MONEY is a requirement though.

[funkytown]

Think about this.

Its actually reallly easy to make big power. The hard bit is holding it all together. Thats where 90% of the $$ go.

[Guest]

If youre going to do another shortblock Id talk to FFS on here. Or throw what you have into a CDB. Your block might already be pearshaped borewise you wont know till you get it apart. Why someone would ever put aftermarket forged internals into an ODB I dont know.

Jon cant you build a cam that gives more down low than factory without moving the power to the right? I dont understand cam lift/duration blah.

[boon]

A GTX2871R would probably get you close to that and spool like a demon on a 2L. GTX3071R is a good option too.

[nismovzr2003]

 evowrx said:

If youre going to do another shortblock Id talk to FFS on here. Or throw what you have into a CDB. Your block might already be pearshaped borewise you wont know till you get it apart. Why someone would ever put aftermarket forged internals into an ODB I dont know.

Jon cant you build a cam that gives more down low than factory without moving the power to the right? I dont understand cam lift/duration blah.

FFS or did you mean FBS?

[nismovzr2003]

 boon said:

A GTX2871R would probably get you close to that and spool like a demon on a 2L. GTX3071R is a good option too.

How much would the gtx3071r have over the gtx2871r?

[Guest]

F.F.S Ltd google em based in wellington.

[funkytown]

a gtx2871r isnt even a turbo, only a gt2871 is, the gtx in a 28 frame size comes in 63 and 67. both of which wont make ~300, 250-60 tops on pump..

Have seen one example of gt2871 that had a 0.86 rear housing and it did map to a gt3071r quite nicely. the gtx back to back had about 10% advantage over the gt3071.

same car, same dyno, same everything, different turbo.

A 2.0 or 2.2 with gtx3071 would make a tidy 280-300 and have heaps of midrange and top end punch. no cams required. boost required - about 22~24psi.

keep it simple stupid.

aiming for ~300 you are going to need to think about extensive cooling requirements. radiator & oil cooler, at a minimum you want to have done the ARP case bolts and ARP headstuds, which means line boring and setting up for correct HG\'s.

Rear thrust is not a must have to be honest. If you even want to put it somewhere near a track and given the $ required to build the ~300kw car i would expect you will want to throw a robust baffled sump at it, expect $1000 here. $200 jobbie is cheaping out for the insurance provided.

if you\'re playing with the big boys, you pay like the big boys.

anything else lasts for about 8 minutes. (verifiable and official measurements, taken by sticking my finger in the air)

[titian]

You reckon 8 minutes Funky? I reckon Nek Minit! As in one! lol ;D ;D

But yes! you should get one dyno chart that will have a sudden drop off.! Ha,Ha!

Only way to power up is as you say:- is to" pay up!"