ECU tuning (flash), V7 WRX => EBC required?

[nickch]

Hi guys,

As the discussion on my WTD thread went a bit OT, I thought I might ask here too.

I went to visit Soichi at st-hitec today to ask a few questions about ecu flashing to tune my car.

It\'s a plain ol\' V7 WRX non-STi....

Don\'t intend to sink any more money on parts, and just get it tuned up so it runs as best as it can with the current mods:

• STi intercooler
  
• 3" turbo back exhaust
  
• removed resonator on the intake
  

So the V7 is not really the best platform to see much gains.. TD04-13T and blue injectors don\'t really lead to much.

But I was hoping that tuning, at least get the maps correct for the change in exhaust, and hopefully get some added boost to suit.

So he mentioned not to expect too much gains, and that it being JDM was better than it being NZ new, but he suggested for me to pick up an EBC as he\'s not comfortable with the ECU controlling boost.

So some have suggested 3-port solednoids as well.

I\'m not so much looking at a \'what should I get\' answer, but more of a discussion as to why I would need it?

[Guest]

I would honestly save for a bit and get a VF## as well so its worth spending so much on tuning.

Ill leave the boost control to someone who understands factory V7 ecus. If its runs closed loop like G4 it brings boost on earlier, stronger and holds it better up top.

Noticed avi ran ebc with his G4 also tuned by him I was a little wtf? But hes a tuner im a cowboy...

[Pappu1]

As said above a Vf30 and a tune will be nice

Don\'t get too much boost maybe 15psi

Get the fuel maps and all sorted and will be a very nice street car

And no need for ebc spending if u only running that sorta boost as the stock one is more than able to handle that with ease

Plus lots of knock controll options in that setup

With a Wrx block I wud say u better take all the knock protection u can get

And in this case is free with the stock Ecu boost controller

Even if u do td04 tune it should get a bit close to stock Sti power but not exactly there so not too bad in performance but yea there will still be not much in top end when the turbo runs outta puff

[nickch]

In reply on the other thread as I might as a mod to delete it depending.

 SP00N said:

Stock controller is not bad at all

Comes down to the tuner settin it up

Bit like complainig a hammer is not good enough when u don\'t have the muscles to hit the nail hard enough

Soichi is a good Tuner by the wY

Ebc offers no knock protection that a stock controlle does

Ebc is a he\'ll of a lot fasterto setup tho and more expensive obviously

Lol u might as well just tap it to be honest

anywY Bst to do what ur tuner recomends

Get a ebc that he is happy to tune etc

WhAt mods u got?

Ps. Agreed with what kiwifozee said above Abt fueling

I might get a second opinion, as I\'ve been enquiring around.

Torque Performance said they do a lot of V7s and have gotten a lot of good results.

I might call up and ask them a few more questions regarding boost control and power gains etc.

Yeah, the EBCs were pretty darn expensive from what I\'ve seen.

Mods wise,its in this thread.

Any thoughts?

[Guest]

People seem to like spoons tunes since hes not self promoting.

[Pappu1]

Torque performance do ecutek and that is at the top of the tree for tunes for v7

If u can consider them I wud highly recomend them

International backing etc

Read on it heaps on google etc

[Guest hate-evoz]

interesting

[Pappu1]

 evowrx said:

People seem to like spoons tunes since hes not self promoting.

Haha thanks man

Torque performance use ecutek to reflash and that is the Bst there is

The open source stuff is not bad don\'t get me wrong

It\'s also a great tool

The difference is that since u paying a dynotuner to do reflash u might as well ge it done properly

If a tuner is using open source u ate better off to save some coin and get a road tune done simply cos unlike say a link Ecu the map on the stock Ecu is not a base map by it is a proper full map tuned to 100 octane if Jdm

With a open source reflash u kinda tweak settings to get it optimized to Nz fuel and since u doing that u can also tweak it to get more power and Bette mid range

U don\'t need a dyno to do that as the map had all the basic stuff spot on

It\'s just the general running that is being tweaked and on the road is more than fine

For stuff like a Link a dyno is good cos u working with a basic tune to start with and need the time to repeat things over and over to get things sorted correctly

Of course a dyno will be good for reflash but is not fully necessary

AnywY if u payin big $ get it done with the proper ecutek stuf as they have dyno related tools and all in place to get good results

Paying extra to get open source stuff done on a dyno is a bit overkill but not negative in any way

U may end up with the sMe result as a nice road tune only that u paid a lot more but generally the outcome is Abt the same

With ecutek it will will be Abt the same As well bu at least u getting a much nicer bit of software setup and also international levels of service and backup

That could be worth paying the additional for

There are disadvantages to both types of setup of course

The Ecutek is not cheap but possibly worth the $ compared to paying for open source tuning on a dyno oh and also changes are not as easy to do as for open source

The opensource stuff is only as good as the tuner and u can also end up paying lots just by using Different tuners so best to weigh up options etc

Lots other things also between the different options available

Just kinda depends what u after

[johnny5]

 evowrx said:

People seem to like spoons tunes since hes not self promoting.

hell yeah cant go wrong here

And wouldnt say required just depends on whos tuning it I reckon and how well they can operate the software to control the boost solenoid but an ebc will give you more flexibility to drop and raise back up to your desired setting

[lunchie]

I have looked into this too and found a fair bit of differing opinions, the other large market for JDM stuff is the UK and the guys over there do a heck of a lot of reflashing and almost all say an EBC is not needed for a basic reflash with minimal mods, HOWEVER the tuner which I would consider to have the most experience in this area (Andre at STM) also suggests that an EBC is a good idea.

He is happy to tune without one but he says he has seen boost spikes on some subies without the EBC, so I guess its up to you, yes it will cost probably $500 or more but you will have peace of mind that the tuner can create a tune which pushes the boost to the limit of factory tolerances without worrying that it will spike.

Tough call ay?

It it were an STI I would probably say no simply because the STI engine is likely to be more tolerant of a few extra PSI but with the WRX engine you may not have such a large amount of leeway.

[nickch]

I\'ve picked up a 3-port BCS.

Its lets your ECU control your boost with the same precision as most EBCs.

Ie, instead of bleeding pressure off your wastegate, you can interrupt and plumb pressure back to pre turbo.

So it is possible have your wastegate fully closed at times.

Apparently it allows you to come to boost quite a lot quicker.

It is not a straight install though, as you need to get the car retuned with lower wastegate DCs to compensate.

[johnny5]

Cool post up your results when your finished be good to see how ya get on who are you going to see about tuning. Torque performance?

[nickch]

Yes, most likely going to Torque Performance.

I would really like to see if the stock solenoid vs the 3-port makes a difference.

But I don\'t know if Dave is willing to put the extra time for it.

He says that I will be charged a little extra to tune for a 3-port. Though when I initially spoke to Robin, he mentioned it was a flat rate.

He also mentioned, they have done back to back testing between the 2, and he said it makes bugger all difference.

But based on what I\'ve read on nasioc, there is noticeable difference and a smoother build up.

Well see I guess...

[Guest]

Yea its strange how some tuners charge 1k or whatever for a tune regardless how much they do guess thats why people love places like dtech bloody good work and hourly rate.

If theyre using ecutek then they would charge on top Id be picking depends how it works. If I was paying 1kish for an ecutek tune I would expect the 3 port tuned included considering theyre tweaking fuck all compare to a ground up with bigger injectors/turbo etc.

[Pappu1]

Nice choice man

Tp is the best in the business when it comes to the reflash

And yea good call on the 3 port

Hopefully it works well for u

[Guest]

Try get them to do a before and after plot dude.

[lunchie]

I am confused, does the OP want to know if the 3-port and EBC makes more power or is more reliable in the long term?

[Kiwi_Fozze]

i\'d go for a vf30 for better midrange / top end, being jdm do you have AVCS?

i\'d go for a 3 port and tune to suit, please remember, with the pre v9 ecu\'s if you ECUTEK it, you can NEVER remove the tune. you can get it reverted to standard, but no one will be able to talk to the ecu without the ECUTEK key. even another tuner can\'t fix any bugs later on down the line.

open source, from what i\'ve seen, is very similar to the ecutek tune, and i believe there are a few tuners around that will do the tune with that if you ask nicely.

[nickch]

 lunchie said:

I am confused, does the OP want to know if the 3-port and EBC makes more power or is more reliable in the long term?

I\'m wanting to know if it makes more power.

Even if it\'s just a little bit, and gains more area under the curve in the bottom end.

[Kiwi_Fozze]

Yep, more gains under the curve as it\'ll bring on boost much faster if tuned right

[Marky]

More power sooner = sharper rise in graphy thing = more power overall, so faster car in the real world

[Guest]

To answer the q: 20psi on stock b/c wont be any higher than 20psi with 3 port. With tuning and maybe another psi or 2 you should get more power. With the 3 port - what marky said.

[Paimei]

 kwi_fozze said:

i\'d go for a vf30 for better midrange / top end, being jdm do you have AVCS?

i\'d go for a 3 port and tune to suit, please remember, with the pre v9 ecu\'s if you ECUTEK it, you can NEVER remove the tune. you can get it reverted to standard, but no one will be able to talk to the ecu without the ECUTEK key. even another tuner can\'t fix any bugs later on down the line.

open source, from what i\'ve seen, is very similar to the ecutek tune, and i believe there are a few tuners around that will do the tune with that if you ask nicely.

I have software which will read and write to ECUs which have been locked by commercial products such as the above.

Ecutek or opensource - the tune is only as good as the skills and experience of the person using the software

The 2 port boost solenoid on the V7 wrx is more than capable of solid boost control and quick response on small to mid sized turbos such as the TD04 or VF range if properly mapped and a correctly sized restrictor pill is used for the particular turbo.

[nickch]

Cheers for the feedback Paimei.

Essentially, everything I\'ve been reading about the 2-port vs 3-port has been great.

Most of the posts on NASIOC, even by members with stock V7,V8s with AccessPorts say they can feel a difference.

For slightly more than $100, given that I will be spending 10x that on just the tune, it was a good gamble.

I\'ve tried looking for dyno plots that compare the attainable curve with the 2-port vs the 3-port but haven\'t found any yet!

Torque Performance guys reckon it will not make a difference.

[Marky]

On the dyno it would be very hard to spot the difference - it\'d be a slightly quicker spool but on a td04 damn hard to see it as anything more than random variation

Problem is that on the dyno, the run starts with pre-loading the car, so you never reeeeally see the difference in response it (the 3 port) can give - think in terms of rolling on & off the throttle, it reduces that lag in waiting for it to spool up