twisted turbos!

[ARGHAYE]

hi all

i am getting close to finishing the mechanicals on my Ra circuit car and am trying to figure out twisted turbos, what is the actual gain in twisting it? i know it make for more free flowing intake etc but is there anything else im missing? i am running a front mount and want to flip the plenum and use a 250t unit aswell. is this a good way to go? i have v3sti unit on the motor at the moment if that is better?

also is there an off the shelf twisted up and downpipe i can buy or am i best to go custom? i am looking to make between 250 and 300kw in the end...

thanks for any advice you have ;D

Richard

[Guest]

The up pipe has a flexi in it which causes a restriction. Thats the biggest gain in it and the fact it frees up the intake tract which you can do with a silicon under mani intake pipe. Not many turbos will do 250-300wkw in stock location and why bother?

[sl8r]

do not get a flexi in your up pipe .... very bad

[Guest]

I haven\'t seen twisted set ups for sale from known tuners like hks, tomei etc, etc, I thought they had to be custom fabricated by places like sinco or your local fabricator. biggest benefit is you can put a much bigger turbo IN the car due to more space, as evowrx said you\'d struggle to hit 300kw with oem turbo or any turbo that sits in the oem position.

[Guest]

Fair few lads in states do em like perrin but why bother. Its not that 300wkw isnt achievable with stock setup but may as well do it properly once imo.

[Trent]

I could sell my twisted vf22 with lines and up and down pipe for the right price pm me

[ARGHAYE]

hey guys

thanks for the replys, im not trying to make 300kw off the stock turbo that is just the eventual aim, i am a firm believer in keep it simple and do it once do it right, so am looking for pointers as to what do do with this in mind? i heard rage do them but cant find where to buy?

[Guest]

 ARGHAYE said:

hey guys

thanks for the replys, im not trying to make 300kw off the stock turbo that is just the eventual aim, i am a firm believer in keep it simple and do it once do it right, so am looking for pointers as to what do do with this in mind? i heard rage do them but cant find where to buy?

The problem you have is what fittings do you get on the upipe and downpipe that connect to the turbo, do you go stock flange which potentially limits you in the future or t4, vband etc which most aftermarket turbos come with but won\'t work with your oem turbo.

I would just email rage it will be made from scratch and they would need your car to be sure it fits, doubt they have them stocked on the shelf. May be better to buy turbo now as well so you can choose the exact flanges you need and future proof it.

[funkytown]

As above.

But basically best results are buy turbo you want and build twisted up / down to suit.

Dont twist now and swap turbo size or frames later.. waste of your money and it will never line up properly so mo ey wasted re hashing it. Generally off the shelf stuff also never lines up

[boon]

 funkytown said:

Generally off the shelf stuff also never lines up

So much this.

If you\'re going to twist, or indeed put anything larger than about a TD06 on your car, get real friendly with someone who owns a tig.

[ARGHAYE]

Ok cool I\'m going to make my own, any pointers for making one? Pipe diameters etc? Angle of the turbo?

Cheers

Richard

[Guest]

 ARGHAYE said:

Ok cool I\'m going to make my own, any pointers for making one? Pipe diameters etc? Angle of the turbo?

Cheers

Richard

3 inch downpipe is the standard size, it\'s not just downpipe you have to make, it\'s the upipe too and depending on the car this may be twin scroll or single scroll. Where the turbo sits and the angle you will have to work out for yourself depending on your engine bay clearance etc

You also have to select what flanges your going to use if you are sticking with Subaru turbo as Funky said your pretty much wasting your time, best to wait save the money and get it all in one go then it will fit perfectly. If you going to make one anyway don\'t forget the hole for O2 sensor.

picture of mine downpipe only obviously

[funkytown]

 ARGHAYE said:

Ok cool I\'m going to make my own, any pointers for making one? Pipe diameters etc? Angle of the turbo?

Cheers

Richard

location is ALL about turbo size and the auxiliaries around it, and where you want to put an EWG if you go that way. generall there is a trade off in angle of turbo vs not hitting stuff just given the RHD nature of the cars here and size of housings on the turbo and screwing it round far enough to clear the intake runner and not smashing into the brake booster / clutchr res. This you will work out quite quickly putting a large snail in the hole to check.

DO NOT BOTHER twisting a VF turbo. totally pointless. gives you wank factor but thats it im sorry. twisting anything gt30 sized or a Holset or equiv and twisting is mandatory. I have seen people run a gt28xx in stock location with some sucess. they are quite fiddly to set up though.

With respect to the angle it alldepends on the turbo core and bearing type, obviously you can center them in the rotational axis as the housings generally rotate around the CHRA - depending obviously on the choice of wastegate design, interal or external. To know what the manufactorers permit it will vary from manu to manu.. look up on the net is my advise, but its bother all in the real word.

For garretts its something like 14-16 degs back to front off level, which in practice is bother all, and im yet to see a twisted garrett (on a subaru) sit within those tolerances .. unless the down pipe is run over the gearbox and down the passenger side firewall space. but thats very complicated.

On subarus in case you havent worked it out by now - swapping for a larger than factory turbo is a REAL bastard. from experience at least a 3 bolt flange on the uppipe / headers is a really good idea, and the uppipe requires a good amount of strengthening to hold a heavier turbo too.

Also from my personal XP the v band flanges on EWG\'s and Downpipes are generally the way to go for ease of fitmint and removal.

And ballsrburing has good practical advice above as well. 3" DP is where its all from anything above 250wheel KW.. OH something he hasnt done which is really recommened is putting a LARGE 3" flexi in the DP - allows for a good amout of movement with engine movement and heat expansion. With respect to uppipe diameter its best you talk to engine tuners / builders about your hopes and dreams, there is quite a few schools of thought on this. Personally i have reaonably large Uppipe, others swear much smaller is better. All i know is my motor has very good VE and it doesnt take a long time to spool quite a big turbo. YMMV.

[Guest]

 funkytown said:

And ballsrburing has good practical advice above as well. 3" DP is where its all from anything above 250wheel KW.. OH something he hasnt done which is really recommened is putting a LARGE 3" flexi in the DP - allows for a good amout of movement with engine movement and heat expansion. With respect to uppipe diameter its best you talk to engine tuners / builders about your hopes and dreams, there is quite a few schools of thought on this. Personally i have reaonably large Uppipe, others swear much smaller is better. All i know is my motor has very good VE and it doesnt take a long time to spool quite a big turbo. YMMV.

my flexi section is immediately after it in the exhaust section just after the two bolt flange to the exhaust, I too have a large up pipe way bigger than recommended, unlike funky though I haven\'t tested mine yet.

Just to add when you fabricate one it will probably look nothing like mine above as I don\'t have brake booster etc in the way so didn\'t have to worry about clearance from it or master cylinders.

[gotasuby]

It is possible to fit a large frame turbo like hx35/40 without going over 15 degrees lean back but it\'s very very tight and without good engine mounts the turbo hits brake master cylinder when launching it. A smaller turbo won\'t be as hard. I\'ve had a few td06 twisted and even managed to keep tmic, same with the vf30 twisted we have

[filthyrich]

I have a rage one and everything fit fine. I can get them for you if you want one...

[ARGHAYE]

An up pipe too?

[filthyrich]

Yes their kit is an up pipe and a downpipe

[Guest]

 gotasuby said:

It is possible to fit a large frame turbo like hx35/40 without going over 15 degrees lean back but it\'s very very tight and without good engine mounts the turbo hits brake master cylinder when launching it. A smaller turbo won\'t be as hard. I\'ve had a few td06 twisted and even managed to keep tmic, same with the vf30 twisted we have

Awesome