New to Soobies, want a BP5, give me advice!

[zombo]

Hi guys,

So I've been a Honda nut forever, currently got an Accord Wagon, but after coming from my modded Torneo SIR-T it's a bit disappointing that Honda don't make a manual, performance oriented wagon! The BP5's really seem like a good option and I'm dead set keen on getting one, what things should I look out for when buying one? Any particular model/trim that I should look for specifically? A few questions I do have at the moment though.

• I want it to be Turbo, Manual. Not concerned with Blistein suspension as I'll probably end up putting coilovers in anyway, so I guess I don't need a SPEC B?
  
• I would like a decent sound system, worth getting one with the factory Mcintosh sub etc and putting a different headunit in?
  
• Is it worth getting a relatively cheap, but higher mileage one? I am very mechanically minded, and could swap the engine if need be, just that I've seen a few for around 6k, and it's like you can buy 2 wagons for the price of one low mileage one at a dealer!
  
• Sunroof seems hard to find but would be nice, any issues with these?
  
• I heard turbos changed in the "facelift" version, and are much better? which ones are facelift? any way to easily tell?
  

[ADIKT]

• I want it to be Turbo, Manual. Not concerned with Blistein suspension as I'll probably end up putting coilovers in anyway, so I guess I don't need a SPEC B?
  -Try find one with a 6 speed gearbox
  - however the 5spds are OK
  
• I would like a decent sound system, worth getting one with the factory Mcintosh sub etc and putting a different headunit in?
  -You'll most likely have a few issues with speaker ohm's and compatibility if changing the macintosh - the macintosh units are pretty good as is (the sub can be upgraded to a point I think)
  --the non macintosh systems use kenwood headunits (you can buy the kits to swap them out http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-parts-accessories/subaru/accessories/auction-975834339.htm - they do pop up cheaper every now and then ) they also have pretty crappy speakers (partially cardboard and just sound rubbish)
  
• Is it worth getting a relatively cheap, but higher mileage one? I am very mechanically minded, and could swap the engine if need be, just that I've seen a few for around 6k, and it's like you can buy 2 wagons for the price of one low mileage one at a dealer!
  - Its up to you really - personally i prefer to get as low k's as possible
  - make the dealers an offer of what you think the cars worth and see what happens!
  
• Sunroof seems hard to find but would be nice, any issues with these?
  - a close friend has a sunroof on his 3.0 2009 legacy and he hasnt had any issues whatsoever
  - I really wanted one on my car but couldn't find the 'right' car
  
• I heard turbos changed in the "facelift" version, and are much better? which ones are facelift? any way to easily tell?
  - facelift was from late 2006-2009
  - I believe the turbos did change - they are also different auto vs manual - unsure if they are any better
  - facelift also usually gives you the Si-Drive
  

Whats your budget?

Welcome to clubsub btw!

Edited November 3, 2015 by ADIKT

[zombo]

Thanks dude 13k is probably the most I'd be prepared to pay, I'd like to find something around the 10k mark if possible. Really appreciate the advice!

[ADIKT]

No worries - good luck - they're great cars

[McDoof]

Lots of questions = lots of answers hopefully.

So for a start of you can afford it then a facelift SpecB is the way to go for manual cars. For a start they come with a very bulletproof 6 speed STI-ish gearbox. Both the engine and gearbox are normally good for higher miles unless it's been thrashed. But you will probably need to refresh suspension bushes and struts and gear linkage bushes and gearbox mounts etc on a higher mileage car. Petty much all the rubber stuff. If you are spending up on coilovers then it makes sense to do some of these anyway along with some sway bars. The rear at least.

Before you buy make sure you get it checked out by a reputable subaru specialist. The AA and VTNZ etc just don't know ****. Facelift cars are MY07 to MY09 so that includes some late 06 cars. The easiest thing to look at are the headlights and front bumper.

If you're upgrading the sound then it doesn't matter so much of it has the McIntosh system. Either way you will be better off replacing the speakers. If you are keeping the stock audio then it makes all the difference. The McIntosh system is pretty decent if you put a better sub into it and hook some bluetooth connectivity into it. There are a few options for this.

There are also differences between JDM and NZ new cars. But the chances are you will end up with JDM so I won't go into that.

The sunroof is normally only found in the NZ new cars and very few JDM cars, these are very rarely for sale.

Last but not least get the ECU remapped. I can put you in touch with a great remote tuner if needed. It's the best $400 you'll spend on the car.

And that concludes my 0.02

[zombo]

Thanks so much, awesome info! And yes I'd be super dead keen on getting it tuned, esp for $400 that sounds like a bargain! If you can let me know the details it'd be most appreciated.

Is the 6 speed better on economy? I will be dailying the car, and I travel about 40km per day for work on highway so would be useful!

[ADIKT]

 zombo said:

Thanks so much, awesome info! And yes I'd be super dead keen on getting it tuned, esp for $400 that sounds like a bargain! If you can let me know the details it'd be most appreciated.

Is the 6 speed better on economy? I will be dailying the car, and I travel about 40km per day for work on highway so would be useful!

Yes you can get good fuel economy with the manuals (ultimately it comes down to how heavy your foot is ) - you can better it with a good tune also

[McDoof]

I don't think you'll gain any economy from the 6 speed no (over the 5 speed) . I'll PM you some details tomorrow about tuning etc. Also have you considered a 3.0R SpecB? When tuned peak power is only about 5kw below a tuned GT.

Edited November 3, 2015 by McDoof

[McDoof]

Bit of a rarity and somewhere in the sticks and high K's but NZ new so it gets 8 Airbags, everything in English, double sunroof, leather, 260km/h speedo. http://www.trademe.co.nz/971354312

New clutch too which is handy.

[SpeedySub]

-Sunroof seems hard to find but would be nice, any issues with these?

I have a 1998 BH wagon with sun/moon roof and I have never had a problem with it. (apart from forgetting to close it when I get home and it starts to rain)

[Percy]

Having looked hard at both the GT and the 3.0R, I would recommend driving both, the 3.0r is a pretty rapid bit of kit.

Its also very easy and relaxing to drive when not getting on it.

[ADIKT]

 Percy said:

Having looked hard at both the GT and the 3.0R, I would recommend driving both, the 3.0r is a pretty rapid bit of kit.

Its also very easy and relaxing to drive when not getting on it.

I love my 3.0r - such a nice engine

[McDoof]

 ADIKT said:

I love my 3.0r - such a nice engine

+1

[Marky]

Yeah but has no turbo noises OR scoop

To be fair the prices on these cars is all over the place - you can find very very similar models (km and age wise) for 5-8k price differences so definately shop around. You could always buy a 3l auto daily cruiser and a spare GC8 hack for lol duties?

Drive both models, and if you have ideas of making it more go-fast then go the turbo model. With minor mods (as in, tune and exhaust) then they make the same numbers everywhere, but the 2L obviously has a whole lot more scope for tinkering once you factor in the usual upgrades.

To be fair if it were me I'd buy a cheap manual turbo pre-facelift wagon, and spend the $4-5k saved over the later one on gaining 150hp and a decent proper headunit rather than trying to bastardise bluetooth etc to work with the stock bits.

But hey, it's your moneys - just go drive them all and you'll know pretty quick

And don't even consider the 2l or 2.5 n/a ones

[Andy_Mac]

Only downside to going prefacelift is the lack of the 6mt and mildly inferior interior. I'd still go with the facelift if i had to do it again.

[GorGasmSpecB]

 McDoof said:

I don't think you'll gain any economy from the 6 speed no (over the 5 speed) . I'll PM you some details tomorrow about tuning etc. Also have you considered a 3.0R SpecB? When tuned peak power is only about 5kw below a tuned GT.

That's totally wrong, a GT tuned has much higher peak power.

[McDoof]

 GorGasmSpecB said:

That's totally wrong, a GT tuned has much higher peak power.

In that case Matt must a done a pretty crap job on Andy Mac's GT because it shows 169kw at the wheels and my 3.0R shows 163kw at the wheels. That is 6kw. In my book 6kw is pretty close to 5kw.

OK admittedly I have a set of raptor headers on my car, but even those won't make a huge difference.

[Andy_Mac]

I agree with mcdoof to a point. The turbo's on these are far too small to get any worthy top end unless wringing them out to the point of being a ticking time bomb.

Was actually going to compare mine to yours. Mine does have a completely stock exhaust other than a decat vs your mostly replaced one but there still is only another 10-15kw to be made with doing a full exhaust.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Andy_Mac

[McDoof]

 Andy_Mac said:

Only downside to going prefacelift is the lack of the 6mt and mildly inferior interior. I'd still go with the facelift if i had to do it again.

The interiors on the cars that have the McIntosh systems are actually fairly close between the Pre and post facelift. None of that horrible silver centre console stuff. But I also would go with a Post facelift, just because it looks better.

[McDoof]

 Andy_Mac said:

I agree with mcdoof to a point. The turbo's on these are far too small to get any worthy top end unless wringing them out to the point of being a ticking time bomb.

The big difference is that my car is now pretty much maxed out. I could possible gain another 5 to 10kw with and intake and full exhaust, but that's it. Unless I spend my next mortgage on forced induction. The GT has massive scope for modifications, many of them just bolt right on up to the stock stuff.

[Andy_Mac]

McDoofs 3.0r

My twinscroll 2.0gt

The gt's have potential for better peak torque but really sacrifice it at the low end, with the stock turbo they will always be limited in their top end. How often does anyone really wring it out right to redline though. Would much rather have a better mid than top. Also the facelift gt's, not sure on 3.0r's got the bigger r180 rear viscous diff for 06-07 and a r180 torsen one for the later years. And bigger is always better

Edited November 4, 2015 by Andy_Mac

[SpecB]

 Marky said:

Yeah but has no turbo noises OR scoop

I will admit I really do like how sleepy and unassuming the 3L's look, while still having the ability to seriously hooof

And yes definitely go facelift. The 6spd manual is way tighter and just 100x more comfortable.

[GorGasmSpecB]

I should rephrase what I said. Instead of saying that's wrong I should have said that's misleading. The GT makes a ****load more through the midrange making it a somewhat faster car.

Also given a downpipe and intercooler you will be knocking on the door of 200kw with a GT.

[McDoof]

Agreed. The original point I was making was more to say "don't discount the 3.0R as an option. It actually makes a decent amount of power" is also very nice to drive.

[zombo]

Love how active the forums are here with useful info, appreciate all the comments too! I've had my fair share of N/A performance oriented Honda's and am dead set on a turbo, well just because I've never had a turbo before, and would be a new interesting experience Otherwise I'd be looking at the 3.0 for sure.