Questions about NZ/Subaru

[Guest]

So if the first turbo kicks in at around 2000rpm, and the second one kicks in around 4500rpm..... this is where I was getting confused. Say I'm in 3rd gear, and I'm driving out of the city at around 3000rpm, just cruising around that speed. That means I'm using just 1 turbo right? Now if I step on the gas pedal harder and take it to around 4500rpm, you're saying the second turbo kicks in. So far so good. Now, then, I'm getting further and further out of the city, and I just felt my second turbo kick in at third gear. Now I shift gear going to 4th. What happens then? It goes back to "normal" or 1 turbo? And if I take it back to 4500rpm in 4th gear, the second turbo kicks in again?

Your explanation finally makes me understand the reason people downshift to gain extra speed when taking over cars. I've never understood that concept while driving my Accord, as I would try to downshift, and all I'd hear is my car's engine going crazy and batsh* scaring me with the noise it makes as it wheezes and coughs trying to overtake a car while I should've just stayed on the same gear instead of downshifting.

It also sounds like it's super intense for the engine. If turbos aren't used that excessively, I'm assuming this would help the car's condition and survivability, which is good, since the idea of even going 4500rpm scares me. But hey, just knowing that I can if I need to, that's what I care about, lol.

So, given that I've NEVER been in a turbo car, much less driven one, what should I expect when those turbos kick in? I'm assuming a good deal of burst speed, but does the car make any loud noise that I should be aware of so that I don't crap my pants while driving?

 

I swear by an oil cooler, it keeps your oil temperature down, which means the temperature of your bearings will be kept down, which in turn they should have a longer life. Although, I'm unsure what a warranty company would say about an oil cooler as some consider it a performance mod (idiots), but i consider it a reliability mod.

Thanks man, I put that in in my note, to check whether the warranty will be voided or not when I get the car. If I have a mechanic with me that says it would be helpful in front of the dealer, maybe I can get them to write it in as something that wouldn't void it.

I gotta say, as reliable as Hondas and Toyotas are known to be, I can't believe I bought my last car (Honda) without doing all this research. I guess that's what growing up through 8 years can do for you, but dang, you guys have been super helpful.

[Guest]

edit: sorry, I meant to modify, not reply >_<

[madmike]

 Grifter730 said:

So, given that I've NEVER been in a turbo car, much less driven one, what should I expect when those turbos kick in? I'm assuming a good deal of burst speed, but does the car make any loud noise that I should be aware of so that I don't crap my pants while driving?

I'm thinking that it would be a good idea for one (or more) of the Auckland lads to take you for a wee spin in one of their cars...

If you have never been in a turbo car your in for a treat!!!

[Guest]

dont worry bout your age grifter, im just about to turn 31, and i have just got myself away from a nice, safe toyota camry in australia, to an 89 legacy turbo, its kind of a classic that ive wanted for about 10 years and i thought "well, im not getting any younger"

austalian roads are much like american ones, long and straight! i found myself quite happy not having a balls out fast car, but when you get to the tight and twisties of new zealand roads, it doesnt matter how old you are, you will love giving those turbos a lil tickle every now and again.

and dont worry about lack of knowledge, everyone on here is pretty keen to help out, and we were all there once, plus, "the only stupid question is the one you dont ask"

oh, and i totally agree with everything SpotMe said, just keep giving your cars internals lots of love, and they will love you back!

[Guest]

I'm walking at the mo so expect a full reply later.

You should definately try and make it to a meet or contact one of us in aucks. I'm sure one of us can give you an introduction to the world of subarus

[Guest]

I'll definitely make it out there for a meet, but when I arrive (Sept 16), I'll have just missed that month's meet, so I guess I'll have to wait til October. And I have to get my car by then! (Which, at least, means that I can greet everyone with whatever Subaru I get )

Once I arrive, I'll definitely hit this board up to see if I can meet some of you though. Would be nice to meet new people anyway!

Just thought of another question: Should I only purchase from a dealer, that way I can get a warranty?

[Guest keltik]

most dealer cars of that era have already had a new zealand owner or two. So its up to you on how important you think a warranty is. Buying from a dealership is no gaurantee of quality

[Guest]

another option is to buy from an auction house, www.turners.co.nz is probably the biggest in NZ, and from memory, they do warranties, but you have to pay extra for them. But, because it is an auction, you set the price you want to pay, and even if it doesnt sell to the highest bidder, you can then negotiate with them on a price. just another option

[Guest boostin]

 Grifter730 said:

So, given that I've NEVER been in a turbo car, much less driven one, what should I expect when those turbos kick in? I'm assuming a good deal of burst speed, but does the car make any loud noise that I should be aware of so that I don't crap my pants while driving?

Sorry but I had a good laugh at that!!

Age, don't worry. Yes there are plenty of young 'uns here, its not a young persons club. Its a Subaru enthusiasts club. I myself am 32 and I know of a few who are older than me!!

I got my first turbo at 29, but I have owned Subaru's since I was 21. Most people on here wouldn't have a problem taking you for a skate in their pride and joy. Some are loud, some aren't. It all depends whether it has a loud exhaust, external wastegate vented to atmosphere (aka screamer), atmospheric blow off valve (BOV) etc. They are fun to drive with plenty of power for everyday driving.

Turbos are exhaust driven and compress the intake air (boost). They take a little while to spool and build boost. The average turbo spins at around 150,000rpm at full noise. Standard atmospheric pressure at sea level is around 1 bar (14.7 psi). If a turbo on a 2L engine is running at 1 bar of boost pressure, it is effectively running the same as a 4L non-turbo engine. So imagine when your engine "comes on boost" to it being the equivalent power of a 4L ticking away under the bonnet.

[DPI]

 keltik said:

Filter = $26

Oil = $40

Sump plug washer = $2.30

The rest being labor

Same goes for any car...except mine where you need $70 worth of oil because its a fat bitch

Try my Safari....12 litres of oil and TWO filters...

[Guest]

 keltik said:

most dealer cars of that era have already had a new zealand owner or two. So its up to you on how important you think a warranty is. Buying from a dealership is no gaurantee of quality

Ah, yeah I realize that, I was asking whether I should buy from a dealer instead of a private owner because dealers can at least offer warranties. I'm scared about the BEB issue that SpotMe mentioned, so I thought a warranty might be good...?

[Bumpty]

Both have their pros and cons.

Privately, hand the money over, swap the car to your name, but not warranties etc.

Dealer, read small print on all the paper work, work out all the hidden cost etc (end up paying alot more then private sale), get a good deal on warranties etc.

Personally, I like to buy privately. A lot less hassle and I don't mind about warranties.

Up to you...

*Are you sure you should be jumping into a turbo, especially when you're coming from the states and drive on the other side?

[Guest]

 Bumpty said:

*Are you sure you should be jumping into a turbo, especially when you're coming from the states and drive on the other side?

Lol, I'm not a racer type. I'll get used to driving on the right side soon enough. I don't wanna get another weak car like I've been doing, and then in a few months when I'm used to driving on the right side I would be wishing I had gotten the turbo. Granted, I suppose I could resell the weak car, but that's just a lot of hassle.

[Guest]

 Grifter730']

So if the first turbo kicks in at around 2000rpm, and the second one kicks in around 4500rpm..... this is where I was getting confused. Say I'm in 3rd gear, and I'm driving out of the city at around 3000rpm, just cruising around that speed. That means I'm using just 1 turbo right? Now if I step on the gas pedal harder and take it to around 4500rpm, you're saying the second turbo kicks in. So far so good. Now, then, I'm getting further and further out of the city, and I just felt my second turbo kick in at third gear. Now I shift gear going to 4th. What happens then? It goes back to "normal" or 1 turbo? And if I take it back to 4500rpm in 4th gear, the second turbo kicks in again?

It isn't quite so clear cut. I believe there is a point at which it switches to twin mode (around 4500rpm) and a point at which it switches back (3600rpm or something). I expect other factors like how far open you have the throttle are taken into account too.

Oh, and just because the engine is spinning at a certain speed doesn't mean the turbo is producing boost. You can be trickling around town at 3000rpm in 3rd with the throttle barely open and the primary turbo isn't producing any boost at all (much better for your fuel economy lol!)

Now, in regard to your 3rd to 4th scenario... lets say you're on a race track at 80kph and you pull out on the main straight to pass someone. You drop to third (from 5th) and nail the throttle wide open. There will be a short time where the acceleration is kinda average because the turbo is spinning up to speed, then all of a sudden it starts producing boost and you get chucked back in your seat. A few seconds later, you're doing 140kph and bouncing off the rev limiter (7500rpm) so you snatch 4th gear, the revs will drop to somewhere around 5000rpm, at that speed and with a quick shift, both turbos won't have slowed much at all so you'll be back at full boost basically straight away and starting to think about snatching 5th.

It also sounds like it's super intense for the engine. If turbos aren't used that excessively, I'm assuming this would help the car's condition and survivability, which is good, since the idea of even going 4500rpm scares me. But hey, just knowing that I can if I need to, that's what I care about, lol.

Sure, there is a lot of very fast moving metal at that sort of rpm but to an extent they're built for it. I wouldn't want to see it at 6000rpm and at full boost all day long or anything lol! It is easier (and more necessary) to build a small engine to rev faster.

So, given that I've NEVER been in a turbo car, much less driven one, what should I expect when those turbos kick in? I'm assuming a good deal of burst speed, but does the car make any loud noise that I should be aware of so that I don't crap my pants while driving?

A standard one (which I would suggest you aim for) doesn't really make any extra noise. You should feel a definite increase in acceleration when the primary builds boost, then a brief lull when the secondary is being spun up and then a bigger increase in acceleration when the secondary is online.

But as boostin says, it depends on what else has been done to it Modifying the twin turbo setup is a tricky business hence my suggestion to buy a stock one. Gentle exhaust work tends to be ok, atmospheric BOV (blow off valves) can cause some issues. Dunno about screamers.

Oh, if it has an atmospheric BOV, you'll know pretty quickly. When you lift off the throttle when it has been boosting, you'll hear the high pressure intake air venting to the atmosphere... kinda a pssshhhttt sound lol!

[quote name='Grifter730 said:

I gotta say, as reliable as Hondas and Toyotas are known to be, I can't believe I bought my last car (Honda) without doing all this research. I guess that's what growing up through 8 years can do for you, but dang, you guys have been super helpful.

Sometimes it is better knowing too little lol! There is less to worry about!

Regarding warranties. Most of the time, the warranties the dealer will give or sell you can be purchased separately/privately. There are a number of companies that do warranties so if you really want one, you can buy one for a car you bought privately. Just make sure you know what the t's and c's are before buying and it'd pay to ask around on the club (I might start a poll actually) to find out which warranty companies are the fairest and used most often.

As for being taken for a spin, just post up when you land in Aucks and we'll meet up and I'll introduce you to B4 RSK's (or in my case a GTB which is the wagon version).

[Guest]

 

Now, in regard to your 3rd to 4th scenario... lets say you're on a race track at 80kph and you pull out on the main straight to pass someone. You drop to third (from 5th) and nail the throttle wide open. There will be a short time where the acceleration is kinda average because the turbo is spinning up to speed, then all of a sudden it starts producing boost and you get chucked back in your seat. A few seconds later, you're doing 140kph and bouncing off the rev limiter (7500rpm) so you snatch 4th gear, the revs will drop to somewhere around 5000rpm, at that speed and with a quick shift, both turbos won't have slowed much at all so you'll be back at full boost basically straight away and starting to think about snatching 5th.

Man, this makes me feel like the first time I learned how to drive stick. Had so many questions back then. When you're dropping from 5th gear to 3rd, won't your rpm be pretty high? Like around 5-6000 or so?

Also, how is it that you can be driving in 3rd at 3000rpm with the throttle barely open without the turbo kicking in, when it's supposed to kick in around 2000rpm? And how do you "nail the throttle wide open"?

I'll definitely post here once I arrive. Need to know all this stuff before I go ahead and look at the cars, lol.

[Guest]

A turbo requires a certain amount of exhaust gas flow to spin fast enough to produce boost. With the throttle barely open, it won't have that flow.

So, you can have it spinning at 6000rpm and not have any boost.

Changing from 5th to 3rd at 80kph, the revs probably rise to about 4000rpm but I can't remember exactly.

I take it you are pretty confident driving a stick? Many Americans I've met have no clue lol! I find the manual in the Subaru's takes a little practise to get smooth in, partly because being all wheel drive, there is a lot of drivetrain with little bits of slack here and there.

[Guest]

Ah, you have experience with Honda's VTEC right? VTEC changes the profile of the camshaft at a particular engine speed. A turbo doesn't really operate in the same way.

The primary turbo is always 'on'. It is always fed exhaust gas, it is just that until it is spinning at a certain speed, it doesn't produce any boost and it needs a certain amount of exhaust gas flow to spin fast enough.

The secondary on the other hand is not fed any exhaust gas flow until the computer opens a valve which happens somewhere around 4500rpm and then closes again somewhere around 3600rpm.

[Guest]

My Accord was manual, and I had it for 7 years, so I'm confident in driving a manual. Driving a turbo seems daunting, and add to that I'm driving on the other side, and well, let's just say that if I get a turbo, it won't get used for a while. What really scares me is your roundabouts! We have no roundabouts here where I live. My wife (who's from NZ) always laughs whenever I'm amazed at how efficient roundabouts are compared to our 4-way stops.

Anyhow, my driving will be super limited for a while, mainly just gonna drive around residential neighborhoods to get used to driving on the other side.

So I'm still a bit confused here, when you said that you can be cruising around in 3rd gear at 3000rpm with the throttle barely open without the turbo kicking in, are you talking about the first or second turbo? If you were referring about the first turbo: How is it that you're controlling how "open" the throttle is, so that the car knows when to open it up to let the turbo kick in?

[Guest]

haha, its not the roundabouts that are scary, its the other drivers!!! i think just taking it easy, and learning as you go is the best thing for it. driving at tnight is also a good idea coz there are less cars on the road, so there will be less pressure on you.

as for the turbo, i say get one. you know how to drive a manual, if you have a turbo and driving it with a light accelerator foot, you wouldnt even know the turbo is there, its only when you put your foot down that you will feel the ultimate delight!!!

dont worry about the secondary turbo for now, it sounds like you will just be easing into it, as you are a more mature driver, so you will learn as you go...baby steps!!!

[Guest]

It really isn't hard or anything lol!

Turbos don't kick in the way vtec does, it is more gradual then that.

At 3000rpm, the computer is only allowing exhaust gases to flow to the primary (1st) turbo. The throttle opening is what you control with your right foot i.e. the accelerator pedal

So the primary turbo always gets exhaust flow but until there is enough exhaust flow, it isn't going to spin fast enough to produce any boost. That is why the engine can be spinning at 3000rpm but the turbo may not be producing any boost, i.e. you're being very light on the throttle. You can rev them right out to the redline of 7500rpm without seeing any appreciable boost... if you are light enough on the throttle and/or you are rolling down a hill or something.

But in general, the primary turbo starts producing boost pretty early.

Without a boost gauge in the car, you may not even notice when the primary is doing it's thing, it can be that gradual, especially if you are driving pretty gently.

Drop me a line when you get here and I'll show you what I mean. They really aren't scary unless you're really hoofing it lol!

[Guest]

Oh, and roundabouts are easy... just give way to anything coming from your right When you come up to them, make sure you are in a suitable gear to cruise through them slowly but also be prepared to stop (does the US have Give Way signs?).

If you are turning left through the roundabout, you need to be in the left lane and have your left indicator on. If you are turning right, you need to be in the right hand lane with your right indicator on (switching to having the left indicator on before you reach the exit of the roundabout that you want). If you are travelling straight through, it depends on the lane markings coming into the roundabout and you only use the left indicator when you are ready to exit the roundabout.

Some roundabouts are a single lane but we also have some in Auckland that are four or five. It is just a case of being prepared to slow down/stop, give way to stuff already in the roundabout (i.e. coming from your right) and being in the correct lane when you enter the roundabout.

I *think* I've also seen one or two roundabouts in NZ with traffic lights on them. They are very strange beasties and are pretty rare (really common in the UK) and they don't seem at all logical to me lol!

[Guest]

Lol. Looking forward to having come out for a few cruises with the club. Good luck with the car hunt

[Guest]

Lol, all I know is, when I go out cruising with the club, some of you better stay behind with this slow old man!

I'll definitely hit you up when I get to town man, thanks a bunch!

[BlkPnthr]

 SpotMe said:

I *think* I've also seen one or two roundabouts in NZ with traffic lights on them. They are very strange beasties and are pretty rare (really common in the UK) and they don't seem at all logical to me lol!

Yeah, there's a couple in Tauranga, so i'm sure there'll be some in other places. I'm not a fan

[Guest]

theres one up in westgate at the moment, at the end of the motorway, really fun when there a big logging trucks...NOT!!!