sump baffle

[Pappu1]

question - with the track bug biting me - whatbare the toughts on a baffled sump mod?

i mean im not particularly fast as some out there and running on standard road tires (running bridgestone grid 3 type), will i be generating enough forces to be in the teritory of needing a baffled sump?

wud rather not spend the moolah if im still out of that zone just yet... but not sure how fast/hard the car has to be driven before its a necessity to have the sump done..

any ideas wud be good - as i have heard that usually on road tires i would not reach the level of grip to warrant issues with the standard sump..

[PhatRS]

On road tyres you should be ok just overfilling the oil (should) but better safe than sorry, its one of those easyish mods like the parallel fuel rails that if you dont do and things go south then you wished you had.

I have one of the PBM ones to go in ($160 + exchange for your sump) and Im not sure how much it will actually do compared to some of the hard core ones Ive seen from the UK but its better than nothing till I can source or make a good one.

[Shale]

PBM ones have been recommended on here before...freaking cheap for what they are too AFAIK.

Totally worth doing because if you're pulling some serious sideways G-forces and suddenly unbalance your driving (human whoopsies, it happens)...you're gonna have BANG...nunganunganunganunga

I'm doing that + split fuel rail to whichever car is planned for the track Bloody cheap insurance IMO.

[Pappu1]

wont overfilling oil cause pressure issues as the pickup or something along the lines be dipped far too dipped in the oil - thats what i have been told about overfilling..

[newsuba]

You should be fine on road tyres.

Those Grid 3's must be due for replacement ?

How old are they ?

Don't know of any GD's go bang, only GC8's.

Overfilling a little bit, say 0.5L, shouldn't cause any problems.

It's pretty much standard practice to use an entire 5L oilpack when changing the oil.

[Shale]

 newsuba said:

Don't know of any GD's go bang, only GC8's.

This is painfully true.

[Pappu1]

 newsuba said:

You should be fine on road tyres.

Those Grid 3's must be due for replacement ?

How old are they ?

Don't know of any GD's go bang, only GC8's.

Overfilling a little bit, say 0.5L, shouldn't cause any problems.

It's pretty much standard practice to use an entire 5L oilpack when changing the oil.

the tires are pretty new - like 90% or so tread so be a few track days in there i hope.

i use 4 litres to fill minus the amount in the filter - when i do oil..

hmm.. so are u saying forntrack day i have a tad over the full mark on the dipstick?

right now i have like a smidge under the full mark - always kept it to that level

[BC5RA]

What Newsuba is saying is the Bridgestone G3's were discontinued awhile ago.

It is possible for tires to "go off"

[Pappu1]

 BC5RA said:

What Newsuba is saying is the Bridgestone G3's were discontinued awhile ago.

It is possible for tires to "go off"

lol..

yea could be...next week, im getting wheel a swap done with a mate so should have some toyo proxy i think..

in any case, i guess my question was answerd - on reqular street tires, the sump baffle mod is not necessary as not generating enough forces to warrant oil issues

[ReubenH]

IMHO, better safe than sorry. But i would agree with the overfilling thing being a good alternative. Worse case you blow a seal... much nicer than blowing a big end!

Are V7+ sumps different in anyway? Or are they just much tougher engines and don't blow big ends as much full stop.

[Joker]

my theory is high revs are the killer (leads to oil starvation in critical areas such as BEB)

until a few years ago I was of the assumption there was 1 big end bearing near the flywheel

now I smarter and know its the Big bearing on the crank-shaft holding/rotating the Piston

[Pappu1]

 JoKer said:

my theory is high revs are the killer (leads to oil starvation in critical areas such as BEB)

until a few years ago I was of the assumption there was 1 big end bearing near the flywheel

now I smarter and know its the Big bearing on the crank-shaft holding/rotating the Piston

all right then -

new policy -

1 - fill up a smidge over the full mark

2 - limit the revs to say 6k (or is that still too high - how about 5.5k)

3 - use moderate boost - max ever 15-16 psi

and yea i think the v7 sumps may be different - but not entirely sure

in any case, that should cover me for street tire usage

[albaru]

 JoKer said:

my theory is high revs are the killer (leads to oil starvation in critical areas such as BEB)

until a few years ago I was of the assumption there was 1 big end bearing near the flywheel

now I smarter and know its the Big bearing on the crank-shaft holding/rotating the Piston

Hmmm, yes it's quite big

[Joker]

Pappu - it is just my theory

remember it came from a guy who thought the big end of the motor (flywheel area) had the only BEB!

I reckon I'm not far off, but other mitigating variable are sometimes a factor:

boost and fuel supply seems to pop up (assume detonation causing huge load)

[Glen]

Narrow bearings too apparently.

[Guest]

my theory is that taupo is a cursed track

High rpms need more oil so if you have oil surge problems in corners they are more likely to happen then. If your sump has no oil in it it doesn't matter what boost you run the engine is stuffed.

Of course some BEB go just cruising on the street -

Some of these cars are getting old you know, it can just be wear and tear of too thin an oil for many years just slowly wearing away at the bearings then one day abit of stress and they go at the track or going to the dairy...

[Swindog]

Theres this http://mrtperformance.com.au/component/page,shop.product_details/category_id,52/flypage,flypage-ask.tpl/product_id,577/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,32/

and theres another one i found ages ago http://www.nrgauto.com.au/Products-List.asp?CategoryID=5&p=2

and theres another and it just increases capacity from 4ltr to 6.5ltr.

Theres still debate around weather you baffle or increase literage. I have a plan to make one.

[PhatRS]

Why not do both, best of both worlds.

[ReubenH]

Many ways to kill BEB's. Detonation has to be a big one doesn't it... Don't want to start running lean and hot, then start detonating, while raping it to the redline down the straights.

I think most the time peak power is a good thousand or two before redline (Stock V3 STi ECU on mine, peak is about 6800). So i think lower boost and shifting round 6-7k instead of 8 is a damn good policy on the track

[Swindog]

Should always shift at peak anyway as you just create heat after that.

[Stoffa]

ok, seeing how I ran a bearing at taupo after 4 1/2 laps I'll share my list of mods that I did hoping to make it safe for the track.

Parallel Fuel Rail Setup (aftermarket rails with bigger internal diameter)

Sard fuel pressure regulator, set to 45psi (forcing more fuel in)

Oil Cooler with -8 Lines

5L of castrol edge 10w60

I was driving quite hard in straight lines changing about 7.5k, not pushing it too hard around the corners as still getting used to my suspension setup. I was running RE01R tyres which are ment to be quite sticky but certinaly not as good as semi slicks.

Lost pressure at the same time oil temp started going above 120, I headed back to the pits and as shale says nunganunganunga.

I was running a bigger turbo, a VF36 P20, which flows about the same as a VF22, on a factory computer (V5 sti) using an EBC boost wasn't spiking just hold steady at about 16.5-17 psi.

***modified*** I forgot to mention 138000kms

So when my new engine goes in its getting a Moroso sump, no messing about!

[Guest]

 Qwerty said:

my theory is that taupo is a cursed track

High rpms need more oil so if you have oil surge problems in corners they are more likely to happen then. If your sump has no oil in it it doesn't matter what boost you run the engine is stuffed.

Of course some BEB go just cruising on the street -

Some of these cars are getting old you know, it can just be wear and tear of too thin an oil for many years just slowly wearing away at the bearings then one day abit of stress and they go at the track or going to the dairy...

Good call, some of these cars having BEB failures have done much higher milage than their owners prob think..... I have seen a few cars with only 100 000km on them that have clearly travelled a LOT more. Talking of tracks and BEB failures, the loop at Teretonga has to rate up there as scary for oil surge!

[Guest]

 Stoffa said:

ok, seeing how I ran a bearing at taupo after 4 1/2 laps I'll share my list of mods that I did hoping to make it safe for the track.

Parallel Fuel Rail Setup (aftermarket rails with bigger internal diameter)

Sard fuel pressure regulator, set to 45psi (forcing more fuel in)

Oil Cooler with -8 Lines

5L of castrol edge 10w60

I was driving quite hard in straight lines changing about 7.5k, not pushing it too hard around the corners as still getting used to my suspension setup. I was running RE01R tyres which are ment to be quite sticky but certinaly not as good as semi slicks.

Lost pressure at the same time oil temp started going above 120, I headed back to the pits and as shale says nunganunganunga.

I was running a bigger turbo, a VF36 P20, which flows about the same as a VF22, on a factory computer (V5 sti) using an EBC boost wasn't spiking just hold steady at about 16.5-17 psi.

So when my new engine goes in its getting a Moroso sump, no messing about!

I have done my beb after 15mins at Taupo as well so i know how it feels !

Personally i rate oil surge as the probable cause or an engine over 100,000km.

[ReubenH]

So what do you think cause yours stoffa? How many k's on the engine?

[newsuba]

Probably old age.

I've done heaps of laps around Manfeild on BS RE01R's with no probs.

That old master WRXJIM recommended a few basic precautions; overfill your engine (put in the full 5L when changing oil), try to take corners in a gear higher than normal, which lowers engine revs during cornering.

Seems to have worked for him, he was running sticky tyres (Toyo R888s etc) with a relatively standard engine.