Straight Bolt On Turbos

[Guest]

 WRXONP said:

Ever seen a top level car with an internal ? All high power drag cars have external . . It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out what controlls boost better

iagree.a wastegate is really only used to limit and controll your boost.at the end of the day a external will controll boost beeter than a internal.its bigger,easy to change spring for diffrent pressures ect.

on the other hand iv yet to see a internal wastegate that can hold 18psi to redline without tappering off,externals have shown this many times.

i would like to see a internal setup running with a decent ebc set on 17 18psi and see how it goes.

a wastegate isnt a performance mod,its used for big high performance build with masive turbos that cant fit internals.have had 2cars with external and both worked very well.

[WRXONP]

Omg ! ! ! You do my head in . . It made more power earlier because the internal was creeping open . . Thus the turbo spooling slower (lag). . . External was doing its job as it got up to peak boost then opened . . It made more power . . How cant you get your head around that ? I have put plenty of externals on plenty of different cars . And they do make a difference like I said before. Internal creeps open . . External stays shut . . Theres nothing on an internal to help it stay shut . Unless you have a 2 port internal . . -which in that case a ebc can hold it shut in the exact way it does with an external . . . Single port internal is crappy . . External has twin port . The ebc puts boost in the top chamber to hold it shut . . Then via the ebc you can set when you want it to open .. Open it too late get spike . Open to early and make less power . . Open it as late as possible without spike and you get the most out of It without changing boost level

[Guest]

lol im not the one to answer that.but from my experience a wastegate has never made it more power.just better controll without spike and some hella wastegate screming lol,if you search on the net itl tell you a wstegate isnt a performance mod.

[WRXONP]

And if the external wasn't doing its job like you say them why was it 10kw higher at 2000rpm when the external was shut and internal was suppose to be too ? Hm internal creeping open. All was done on same dyno same tune on the link and same person doing the runs . . Even they said external has a benefit . . . I cant be bothered with this shit any more keep your cool internal if you love it so much

[WRXONP]

But alex the other day you said your mate had more kw with less pound with external over internal . . Lol this is the most pointless thread . . . .. Life goes on

[Guest]

mayb your internal or actuater was faulty,making it lose power then when you upgrade to a new wastegate there was abit more power that was usuallly lost due to the internal being faulty?

[WRXONP]

Some how I dont think a 2500 dollar turbonetics turbo comes with a faulty actuator . . . This is all pointless . . . .

[Guest]

lol.bro im sure a expensive turbo like that would come with a very expensive actauter and internal.they defintly wouldnt be faulty.you shuld try you car with intrnal and ebc and see how she goes,i agree with you external is better.but internal still does its job

[WRXONP]

Well like you said I havent seen an internal hold high boost till red line . Ive seen a vf30 hitting 21 pound but was tuned not to hold it to red line . . I haven't seen a 23 hold to red line with internal . . Mine will hold 22 pound solid as a rock until red line (when changed exhaust I needed to alter duty cycle on ebc). . . . This thread only a slight bit of topic . . . . . . . . . My internal cant fit back on with flipped turbo . . . . .

[rex-leggy]

 WRXONP said:

Well like you said I havent seen an internal hold high boost till red line . Ive seen a vf30 hitting 21 pound but was tuned not to hold it to red line . . I haven't seen a 23 hold to red line with internal . . Mine will hold 22 pound solid as a rock until red line (when changed exhaust I needed to alter duty cycle on ebc). . . . This thread only a slight bit of topic . . . . . . . . . My internal cant fit back on with flipped turbo . . . . .

here's my tdo5h holding 18 pretty good imo. he just didn't sit there for ages to get the boost curve flatter.

a good boost solenoid works wonders along with a ebc

[Guest]

im guessing internal too.

yeh thats quite good.

[sultan]

when talking about peak power, the same rev point with an internal is going to be exactly the same power as that same rev point with an external, if boost remains exactly the same. the only way it will be making more or less power is there are more gasses flowing through the turbo therefore it makes more power with more boost. the wastegate is not a power creating device. the turbo is. in the case of a wastegate, more exhaust gasses going through the turbo is NOT a good thing.

 

External was doing its job as it got up to peak boost then opened . . It made more power

i really fail to understand how you can consider a wastegate opening as a way of making MORE power. it really is the opposite. if the wastegate opens you make LESS power. read. LESS!!! Weld it shut and find out....

staying closed longer to spool turbo quicker is valid, but this is your boost controllers job, leaving this up to either wastegate system isn't efficient at all, and either system will work the same here with a good ebc.

i dunno, maybe a wastegate that only half opens at peak to create more power is a performance mod for you. i prefer using computers and tuning and the like.

ps, i've had several internal wastegates, including the one on my previous vf23 setup. holds to redline absolutely fine. spools up, absolutely fine. my next turbo will also have an internal gate. i also rotated the compressor housing and retained the internal wastegate on my vf23.

[Guest]

but was your 23 tuned?were not talking tuned were talking standard 6s ecu and ebc.youv gota link and ebc 2 diffrent things

[rex-leggy]

 sti8u said:

im guessing internal too.

yeh thats quite good.

that is correct

[Guest]

by that graph looks like you make all your power at around 6k?when is your rev limiter?

[rex-leggy]

 sti8u said:

by that graph looks like you make all your power at around 6k?when is your rev limiter?

more then what he went to the red line in the car is a little more then 6.5k but the version 4 ecu is mapped for more 7.5 or 8 i think.

but i didn't want him to push the lifters to far.... the few extra revs wouldn't have made much more .

[Guest]

haha oh yeh thats fair enuf.yeh my v3 limits at 8k.the cs dyno day that we had last the guy took all the cars to limiter including mine.haha

seems alot more worse watching your car hit limiter from the outside rather than when your driving.

[sultan]

 sti8u said:

but was your 23 tuned?were not talking tuned were talking standard 6s ecu and ebc.youv gota link and ebc 2 diffrent things

with a link ecu and ebc you can dial in what ever power you want, as far as your limiting factor will take you

with a standard ecu you're trying to trick it to get as much power as possible. i can see how using a poorly opening wastegate to try and FORCE more power out of your engine can be viewed as better

[Guest]

iddint mean like that iment with a link theres alot more advanced tunning opptions.

for us wev got nothing except a ebc to trick it.

[Koom]

 sultan said:

when talking about peak power, the same rev point with an internal is going to be exactly the same power as that same rev point with an external, if boost remains exactly the same. the only way it will be making more or less power is there are more gasses flowing through the turbo therefore it makes more power with more boost. the wastegate is not a power creating device. the turbo is. in the case of a wastegate, more exhaust gasses going through the turbo is NOT a good thing.

 

External was doing its job as it got up to peak boost then opened . . It made more power

i really fail to understand how you can consider a wastegate opening as a way of making MORE power. it really is the opposite. if the wastegate opens you make LESS power. read. LESS!!! Weld it shut and find out....

What about the plumbing for the external increasing the VE of the engine? That'll increase power at the same boost level.

[rex-leggy]

even when half of them are hanging next to the front wheel vented?

[Koom]

Still could help to increase the breathing ability of the motor. Depends on how it is all done as a "complete system"

The ones that vent inside the engine bay are just retarded, but have you not seen how alot of drag cars will have both exhausts (i.e. one off turbo, one off wastegate) dumping out in front of the front wheel.

But still not that helpful for driving down to the shops to pick up a bottle of milk.

[Jambun]

VE...?

[Koom]

Volumetric Efficiency.

Basically, its how well your engine breathes and seeing as an engine is basically an air pump, the better it breathes, the more effective it is at making power.

[Guest]

 sti8u said:

on the other hand iv yet to see a internal wastegate that can hold 18psi to redline without tappering off,externals have shown this many times.

i would like to see a internal setup running with a decent ebc set on 17 18psi and see how it goes.

Thats 1.6bar or 23psi ish - at redline. The boost curve was tuned to taper down abit tho.

Yes internal gate...