Subaru Ho's Project Legacy

[Guest]

Hi people, this is SubaruHo. I have a massive $2000 project to get going:

Currently the Project Legacy is a Subaru B4 2002 EJ20 twin turbo. Blistein shock equipped

Stock the car comes with i think (wrx's come stock with 180KW for EJ single turbo) my twin turbo should have 200 KW's

Performance Section:

I've owned the car for 6-7 weeks and started the project last week.

Intake:

Currently has a mushroom filter ( starting to think its a mistake ) and replacing it with a proper Coned Pod filter possibly K&N or Simota and getting a Custom cold air box in fitted with Aluminium plating to isolate the heat from the engine. estimated increase of 5-8 KW (sidenote: yes i'm aware that using a after market pod filter isn't the best idea for subarus since it will suck in hot air from the engine bey, which is why i'm going to get a aluminium or carbon fibre cold air box made to isolate it).

Turbo Work:

Sequential Blow off Valve (just the $80 one from Ebay, does the job of the HKS BOV without the label and the heavy $500 price tag, tested and has no leaks absolutely awesome)

Engine Work:

GFB underdriven alternator and crank pulley kit (yes i'm giving it ago after having asked questions n answers to Brett head engineer from GFB)

Estimated power increase: between 5~8 KW+

Miner Strut Brace from the Local Wreckers, suprise what you can find in wreckers these days. supposably better cornering

Exhaust:

currently using a after market N1 exhaust bought for only $24 US from ebay, does have the sound and slightly better performance but figured its not good enough so i'm getting a Cat Backed Exhaust system put on from the wreckers.

cat backed with bigger bore piping with the Blitz Exhaust should increase the flow. (Estimated power increase after 3/4 exhaust upgrade 25~40KW)

Handling Section:

Blistein Shocks (included in the B4)

after market lowering springs possibly king springs or lensos or watever ($370 new or $280 second hand) lowering the car should improve cornering

Tommy Kaira spoiler: special alloy angled spoiler should improve aero dynamics and increase downforce

CAI: $150

Filter: $65~$100

GFB underdriven pulley set: $370

HKS SSQ BOV COPY: $80

Miner Strut Brace: $200

Cat Backed Exhaust system: (no manifolds yet) $300

Blitz High flow muffler 4" (included in the exhaust system)

after market lowering springs: $370

Tommy Kaira Spoiler: $300

Suggestions guys?

front mount intercooler atm is a headache for me so i'm not going to be bothered with it till later

[Guest boostin]

Nice.

PS. Its Tommy Kaira. ;D

[pl0x]

i wounldnt expect that many kw gain from fitting an exhuast, tbh i wouldnt expect much gains from the other two things at all,

those year legacy have already good airbox setup and you wont get much improvement one thinks

[Guest]

 pl0x said:

i wounldnt expect that many kw gain from fitting an exhuast, tbh i wouldnt expect much gains from the other two things at all,

those year legacy have already good airbox setup and you wont get much improvement one thinks

well you gotta sort out the basics mate, i could just put a after market panel filter like everyone else or I could put on a pod filter, it wasn't recommended cuz it would cause my engine to burn at a higher temprature thats why I'm getting a Custom cold airbox fitted also only the Dyno will tell whether ill get much kilowatts increse so yea lol

and also mate I said estimate which is basically GUESSTIMATE not a 100% accurate reading lol

[nzkaosnz]

take it easy chap, most of us are here to help, and many of us have trodden this road before.

Getting power out of a TT is like squeezing water from a stone, like money from a tax collector, like boys from micheals hand....

Pretty much there is a limit that you can get to easily. From there, the next logical step is to drop a single turbo onto it.

Things to do/look at to get to this first turning point from stuff you already done

Make sure AFM is braced!

Walbro - insurance

Rage downpipes (HUGE difference), may need custom y-pipe. - Best bang for buck

Zerosports sequential controller - heard good things

Apexi AVC-R - def a good thing

After that - you only really have the little things left, like brakes/looks etc. Unless you want to really start getting reamed over prices, where a single turbo will be by far the best choice, as tuning/finding aftermarket ecu's etc is not going to happen.

Nevertheless, CS is full of people doing 'the unique thing' just because they dont want to follow the proven track for speed, if that floats your boat, go with it, just dont get snarky when people suggest otherwise. There is a reason they are suggesting that, and its NOT because they want to make you miserable/wind you up, its because it WORKS.

Also. Numbers generally are only for show ponies. The major difference is how it drives/feels. For example. im putting some equal length headers onto my car. This will likely reduce my overall power, but has a huge increase midrange. Much more useful for pulling out of a corner, than the 10kw at 7500rpm.

[Guest]

well wouldn't a single turbo conversion be pretty killer on the price? and what prices are we looking at? i mean I did think about getting single turbo conversion at some stage but thats just too much hassle for now, i mean earning $300 a week atm so i can like get the simple stuff sussed first.

some of my asian mates who does skylines reckon exhaust system and intake is the first thing i should worry about before i worry about anything else.

but what are you guys thoughts? cuz i'm an open minded kinda guy, but after i get all that stuff sussed ill definetly start personalising it to make it my own unique machine either for cruising in style or take it to the tracks.

Things to do/look at to get to this first turning point from stuff you already done

Make sure AFM is braced!

Walbro - insurance

Rage downpipes (HUGE difference), may need custom y-pipe. - Best bang for buck

Zerosports sequential controller - heard good things

Apexi AVC-R - def a good thing

tell me about the Rage down pipes like PRICES

and also the Zerosports sequential controller? NEVER HEARD OF IT BEFORE

Apexi AVC-R i'm guessing is the after market boost controller?

[Guest boostin]

Intake and exhaust do net a couple of hp's, but best bang for buck is a single turbo conversion. Much more scope for upgrades later too.

[Guest]

I need prices people like rough estimates, its all well and good to do single turbo conversions but the thing is is it more bang for buck to like mod a single turbo conversion to my EJ20? or should I just swap my engine for a Subaru WRX STI engine with single turbo? lol even if I amp up the Horsepower I'd definetly need to consider re ironing the chassis or the car will fall apart >>

[subieboy]

 SubaruHo said:

well wouldn't a single turbo conversion be pretty killer on the price? and what prices are we looking at? i mean I did think about getting single turbo conversion at some stage but thats just too much hassle for now, i mean earning $300 a week atm so i can like get the simple stuff sussed first.

some of my asian mates who does skylines reckon exhaust system and intake is the first thing i should worry about before i worry about anything else.

but what are you guys thoughts? cuz i'm an open minded kinda guy, but after i get all that stuff sussed ill definetly start personalising it to make it my own unique machine either for cruising in style or take it to the tracks.

Things to do/look at to get to this first turning point from stuff you already done

Make sure AFM is braced!

Walbro - insurance

Rage downpipes (HUGE difference), may need custom y-pipe. - Best bang for buck

Zerosports sequential controller - heard good things

Apexi AVC-R - def a good thing

tell me about the Rage down pipes like PRICES

and also the Zerosports sequential controller? NEVER HEARD OF IT BEFORE

Apexi AVC-R i'm guessing is the after market boost controller?

Its cheaper doing a single conversion...

Check out RubenH's conversion thread!

[Guest]

Guys guys! Anyone can just do a Single turbo conversion and just run higher boost to get power, but i'm taking other things into account, Performance doesn't equal just more and more horsepower >> i'm taking handling and durability into account here.

and also i'm not trying to be cheap here, if i'm modding it i'll mod it the whole way so no cheap suggestions please >> value for money is all good, but i don't want any 1 offs, like "single turbo for the win" lol

i'm not just after horsepower i'm trying to get a balance of that with durability and handling.

very last thing is looks.

[subieboy]

 nzkaosnz']

take it easy chap, most of us are here to help, and many of us have trodden this road before.

Getting power out of a TT is like squeezing water from a stone, like money from a tax collector, like boys from micheals hand....

Pretty much there is a limit that you can get to easily. From there, the next logical step is to drop a single turbo onto it.

Things to do/look at to get to this first turning point from stuff you already done

Make sure AFM is braced!

Walbro - insurance

Rage downpipes (HUGE difference), may need custom y-pipe. - Best bang for buck

Zerosports sequential controller - heard good things

Apexi AVC-R - def a good thing

After that - you only really have the little things left, like brakes/looks etc. Unless you want to really start getting reamed over prices, where a single turbo will be by far the best choice, as tuning/finding aftermarket ecu's etc is not going to happen.

Nevertheless, CS is full of people doing 'the unique thing' just because they dont want to follow the proven track for speed, if that floats your boat, go with it, just dont get snarky when people suggest otherwise. There is a reason they are suggesting that, and its NOT because they want to make you miserable/wind you up, its because it WORKS.

Also. Numbers generally are only for show ponies. The major difference is how it drives/feels. For example. im putting some equal length headers onto my car. This will likely reduce my overall power, but has a huge increase midrange. Much more useful for pulling out of a corner, than the 10kw at 7500rpm.

^^^Then I would suggest this as your best bet^^^

Especially these as nzkaosnz said:

[quote name='nzkaosnz said:

Make sure AFM is braced!

Walbro - insurance

Zerosports sequential controller

Apexi AVC-R

After that your talking the same $$$ for building a good motor, and if you say reliability is key then the most reliable path is to single conversion... many have tried staying twin, the best step is to use google for some ideas.

Some-one on here had a twin converted to paralel with success big $$$ from memory

[Guest boostin]

Um, have you driven your car?? Straight out of the box they handle pretty damn well. Maybe think about some better tyres and an uprated rear sway bar for starters. If you're really keen, some springs or coilovers would be after that.

[BC5RA]

SubaruHo;

I've lost count of your contradiction's.

You dialogue is most entertaining though.

"re iron the chassis" ;D

[dubbedup]

keep saving and single turbo it...

http://www.clubsub.org.nz/forum/index.php?topic=74.0

[nzkaosnz]

This is what i mean about everyone saying the tried and true line, in this case single turbo.

Its not a huge cost, a single turbo is by far more reliable (anyone who has had a play with the code 66 will attest *shudder*)

As ryan said, look for reubens thread.

rage pipes, in the day cost me $450, not sure on prices now. Just 2x 2.5" mild steel downpipes. www.rage.co.nz

zerosports sequential controller - search CS, bigass thread here somewhere. www.41.co.nz

Generally - the Bilsteins will handle pretty well, and will be good on the ride comfort.

[Carbon]

+1 on the single turbo. The twin is complicated and youll never get peak power out of it.

Its a safe bet to say most tuners would be happier playing with a single

"taking handling and durability into account here"

A 200kw twin would be as durable as a 200kw single (unlikely.....)

Your stock power at the wheels will more than likely be 140-150kw as a base. Apart from the exhaust, none of your mods will have any or little effect on power.

If you are even thinking of a front mount, then plumbing it into a single will be an easier upgrade path.

[Guest]

Cheers mate, i'm just having another hunt around on the forums.

and 41 is a awesome website for parts.

[ReubenH]

Expect to pay around $1500-2000 for the single conversion, the big killer is finding the right turbo. i did my conversion for around $1000-$1500 though, it helps having allot of time to fish around for the cheapest prices on the parts you need for it.

Weather you want to go with it depends on what you want to do with the car in future. In the long run, singles are cheaper and easier power than twins. But if you put the extra money into a proper TT setup, they can be quite rewarding. Single though is the best way to go when you start doing things like ECU upgrades down the line

My personal recommendation is single turbo, i've done it and will never look back. But i do get a bit of scorn from the TT guy's about it, and especially when i push it like i am now.. Drive a WRX or STi before deciding though.

[pl0x]

 SubaruHo']

[quote name='pl0x said:

i wounldnt expect that many kw gain from fitting an exhuast, tbh i wouldnt expect much gains from the other two things at all,

those year legacy have already good airbox setup and you wont get much improvement one thinks/quote]

well you gotta sort out the basics mate, i could just put a after market panel filter like everyone else or I could put on a pod filter, it wasn't recommended cuz it would cause my engine to burn at a higher temprature thats why I'm getting a Custom cold airbox fitted also only the Dyno will tell whether ill get much kilowatts increse so yea lol

and also mate I said estimate which is basically GUESSTIMATE not a 100% accurate reading lol

Yea mate i wasnt trying to shoot you down or anything, just saying...

All depends what you want, a B4 with single would be tops, power & comfort

but there priced so that the money you spend you could buy a mint STI with 200kw+

TBH Id love a b4 and id love to go single but i wouldnt

if i got one id go exhuast, BOV & zerosports controller and be done with engine mods

[Durty-Sanchez]

I reckon pants to these single turbo hippies, stick with the twin and try something different. You've got some great ideas so far, the new BOV and exhaust are particularly good options. Here's my 2 cents worth of what you can add to your list:

- Walbro fuel pump

- Split-rail fuel lines

- 2002 ECU's can be reflashed, so once you've done the exhaust, fuel lines, pulleys, go and get it tuned.. the improvement will be huge.

As mentioned by mr kaos:

- AVCR or other reputable boost controller

- ZS Sequential controller (I see they're $399 on TM at the moment)

Things not to bother so much with:

- Intake - Stick with a factory panel filter, it has the same flow as a pod, cheaper too. Build the CAI if you have money left over, but it's definitely not must have.

[/2cents]

[pl0x]

A problem with that is not many tuners tune TT's

that is why a lot of people say go single

[Guest boostin]

And the turbos don't like much more than 1.1/1.2 bar. And because of the size of them, you need to run them at that level to get any good increase in power. They're just too small to flow enough air.

[Durty-Sanchez]

TT ECU Maps are identical to their single turbo counterparts.. there's no black magic involved here! Some are even in the same code locations! One would tune the TT's for timing and fuel exactly as you would tune a single turbo. Airflow through the engine is not a massive problem, as they already flow a decent amount to red line. More air is not the easy answer to power either, rather refining the factory settings will provide very good gains.

Factory AFR sits around 9.3 at max load, which can easily be upped to around 11 provided the split rail and after market pump is present. Ignition timing has good room to move too, particularly the base map. End of the day the only difference between a TT and a single is the turbo setup, and you would tune for that using the ZS controller. For all other parameters you would tune the engine management just as you would for a single..

At the extent of sounding like a TT hippie now, I believe that although the TT has some serious flaws that singles do not have, they have more potential than they are given credit for. They're not rocket science

[Guest]

So both has ups n downs basically, if I get like single Turbo conversion we're looking at $1500-$2000 and if I could tune the factory twins I can still get decent power gains as well? for a fraction of the price, well thats some good suggestions going people thats good.

I'll have some hunt around and see whats up.

[pl0x]

like i said find a good tuner that will do it before you doing anything becuase i think they pretty rare