3.0R Hesitation and a few questions

[zeroyon223]

Hi everyone,

I have just purchased a 05 3.0r manual wagon, and I have a few questions, mainly related to a slight hesitation it has mainly when you go wide open on the throttle. It's using the 5w30 factory spec oil and has full service history (engine oil anyway). I understand the avcs can be sensitive to this, so I was thinking it may be the fuel filter and plugs or the fly by wire throttle mapping. Has anyone here replaced the in tank filter? Was it a mission and are they typically dirty (car done 93,000)?

Also the eco button, what is it's function, does it just dumb down the throttle below a certain travel of the pedal?

Has anyone gotten rid of the factory chamber above the throttle body for a stainless tank, done headers, exhaust and remap too? Were the results worth it? I do pipe fab as a job so it'd be a cool project to build them.

Thanks

[1randomkiwi]

I have an older 2002 EZ30.

Exhaust makes a small difference and I've heard the newer ones respond well to a good tune.

[boon]

I've found mine is a slug when you mash the throttle if it's in ECO mode (until it kicks out of ECO). I think you're on the money about the DBW throttle mapping - you can get some little HKS box of cleverness that sharpens it all up a bit.

My old man has an '04 BPE Outback, same motor only cable throttle, and his doesn't have any of these issues.

[Andy_Mac]

Sobanoodle's got one of those throttle altering controllers, give him a buzz

[GorGasmSpecB]

If you can do all the fab work yourself then yeah it might be fine. Paying someone to do it would definitely not be worth it as the gains are minimal at best.

Not sure about the hesitation... Mine was a little lazy at the bottom end due to throttle mappings but otherwise fine.

[zeroyon223]

Well to follow up on this thread a bit,

So I ended up replacing plugs, and the fuel filter. Noticeable improvment. Plugs looked pretty tired, and the fuel filter did too. But from what I was told, only the outer filter (white plastic part that clips in to the basket) was available. There was a bunch of black crap on the filter sock itself, but that part is not available, so I cleaned it as best as I could. That may be the next avenue. Also another thing I noticed was a hairline crack on the inlet chamber, just before the throttle body, so it would have been sucking unmetered air in. Tried plastic glue, but may get the crack plastic welded at some point. If you have a bp shape 3.0, I'd check for this crack, seems to be a common problem according to the aussie forums.

[sobanoodle]

Cracked chamber is a very well-known issue (very common too).

Subaru don't offer suction filters as a separate part number, Toyota do and it fits perfectly: p/n 232175​0100

[calibre]

Those plugs are fun to change huh? mainly the two at the rear...I'm sure my garage has never heard so much foul language. Mine is an auto, but has a slight hesitation too at WOT when in eco, seems fine in Sport auto.

[McDoof]

I have a MY05 3.0R and have done headers and some exhaust with a remap. Best thing I ever did. MUCH more torque and worth every penny imho. You can't get rid of the big air box in front of the intake unless you are going forced induction. You can replace it with an aftermarket unit from Kakimoto but you will need to spend a fair bit for relatively small gains. But if you are wanting a starting point for performance on the 3.0R then a remap is the first and best thing.

[Kiwi_Fozze]

Got anyone you recommend? I know zeroing out the closed loop / open loop delay makes a bit of a difference, but mine being 07 means definitions for ECU are limited in content. I know of kido_tune, but who else does them?

[Andy_Mac]

Kido's definately the one for 3.0r's. Cryotune did a mint job on mine but doesn't seem to have as much as experience with the 3.0r's. Also don't think he goes as deep into the cam timing as kido does, sounds like there's quite a few more tables he alters.

[McDoof]

Yea. Kido_tuning (Matt) did a great job on my 3.0R and he is busy doing my mates GRB JDM Sti. He's turned that into a weapon. So I would recommend Matt all day every day. He is actually going to be in NZ at the end of October so he can do a proper road tune too. Price stays the same $400. Cryotune had a go at my car about 2 years ago and the result was far from spectacular. It was one of his first 3.0Rs though.

[sobanoodle]

Is that AUD400 or NZD400?

[McDoof]

 sobanoodle said:

Is that AUD400 or NZD400?

He does kiwi tunes at kiwi prices :-)

[MoNk]

Have an 05 3.0R 6MT wagon also. Great cars.

I think you are right about ECO mode. Seems to limit the top ~10% of travel, then just advises you that you are not driving economically after that.

As for the hesitation. I get that for a short time after startup. My friend thought it was a major issue initially (he has the exact same car) because it can last a while. He has some tunes and it was pointless.

Have you tried resetting the ECU (unplug battery for a while) then idling for 5 minutes to relearn? Mine does it even worse after an ECU reset unless I complete that procedure.

One thing I would like on this car is some induction or exhaust noise. All you hear is the transmission.

[throttlehappy]

As above, I am in Auckland and driving to Wellington then flying to Christchurch for some tuning. Happy to offer some obligation free tuning if anyone is interested I am 99% conficent the DBW and horrid timing maps are the issue you guys are experiencing in the H6 engines.

[McDoof]

Discussing your visit here if you want to chime in http://clubsub.org.nz/forum/showthread.php?42030-Ask-your-tuning-questions-here!/page20

[zeroyon223]

 McDoof said:

I have a MY05 3.0R and have done headers and some exhaust with a remap. Best thing I ever did. MUCH more torque and worth every penny imho. You can't get rid of the big air box in front of the intake unless you are going forced induction. You can replace it with an aftermarket unit from Kakimoto but you will need to spend a fair bit for relatively small gains. But if you are wanting a starting point for performance on the 3.0R then a remap is the first and best thing.

Oh right, is yours 6sp? Have you come close to 300 flywheel hp? For the big airbox in front of the throttle body I'm fabbing a chamber out of 6" dairy tube, with 3" inside it, that has a few large holes bored in the tube so it behaves a bit like the stock item, but should be more durable. Basically a kakimoto replica. Also doing the intake arm as well, I see raptor does a cold air intake that they claim makes a lot more power? I didn't think subarus had much of a problem with the stock airbox, although the feed in to it could be improved a bit?

I have noticed the power delay correlates to the temperature of the car, when it's properly warmed up it feels noticeably better... But that could just be me lol.

[McDoof]

 zeroyon223 said:

Oh right, is yours 6sp? Have you come close to 300 flywheel hp? For the big airbox in front of the throttle body I'm fabbing a chamber out of 6" dairy tube, with 3" inside it, that has a few large holes bored in the tube so it behaves a bit like the stock item, but should be more durable. Basically a kakimoto replica. Also doing the intake arm as well, I see raptor does a cold air intake that they claim makes a lot more power? I didn't think subarus had much of a problem with the stock airbox, although the feed in to it could be improved a bit?

I have noticed the power delay correlates to the temperature of the car, when it's properly warmed up it feels noticeably better... But that could just be me lol.

I have had a fair few conversations with member Daytona. He has an 07 ADM 3.0R 6MT. He has done the Raptor intake too along with a huge amount of work on his exhaust. He recons the raptor intake makes a difference. (according to the butt dyno). I was considering making my own CAI too, but decided to hold off for now. Need to get a decent 3" MAF mount to start with and pick up some piping and elbows etc.

As to how much HP my car is making. Your guess is as good as mine. It will go on the dyno on the 23rd and we will see. According to the virtual dyno map that was sent to me it is making 170kw atw. I think that might be a bit inflated though considering that the car should make about 130kw atw in stock form I would be happy with around a 20kw gain for the mods I have done.

One thing the virtual dyno does show though is flat torque curve the car produces. It is a real pleasure to drive. And yes it is a 6 speed. I really don't like autos for my daily drive.

[Andy_Mac]

170wkw seems pretty high for your mods ay. You sure you got all the gear ratio's spot on and the wheels diameter? Will hugely effect the results if either of them are incorrect with virtual dyno

Edited October 1, 2015 by Andy_Mac

[GorGasmSpecB]

170kw is really quite good for these motors.

The problem with modding the 3.0R is the bang for buck is relatively poor.

I'd say go tune only and leave it at that, no point with much else for the $$$.

[McDoof]

 

I'd say go tune only and leave it at that, no point with much else for the $$$.

I sort of agree with this. I think the best value lies in the tune. Even if you don't get a big boost in top end power it makes the car so much nicer to drive. That goes for both MT and AT cars. I couldn't believe how much better that car was with just a base (non custom) tune was from Matt (throttlehappy). That said I'm happy I did the headers too.

[smutty70]

Hi there. I'm having my car tuned by Matt in a few weeks. Just curious, what effect did the headers have on fuel economy.

Cheers.

Chris

[Kiwi_Fozze]

Well, if its being tuned, you should see better economy. Headers aren't in stock in aux till the 17th so its cutting it a bit fine to get them here in time for the tune.

[McDoof]

 smutty70 said:

Hi there. I'm having my car tuned by Matt in a few weeks. Just curious, what effect did the headers have on fuel economy.

Cheers.

Chris

The headers have had virtually no effect on fuel economy. I keep logs of all fuel consumption so I can say with fair accuracy that it has not changed noticeably. He did a remap for the extra flow on the headers when I got them which gave a noticeable change in how the top end behaved. Get the tune done without the headers for now and then get him to send you and update when you get them fitted. If you don't have a tactrix cable then I can load up the map for you later. (if you are in Auckland that is)

I had mine fitted at Midas Panmure. He did a pretty good job and didn't cost the earth. Around $260 from memory.

Edited October 1, 2015 by McDoof