Pioneer amps good?

[Andy_Mac]

Yea pretty much ay. They'll prevent excess current faults but there's still a few ways to mess them up without blowing the fuse. Pretty sure an internal voltage fault won't in all instances cause it to blow the fuse. You'll just have a few charred varisters on the board.

[GorGasmSpecB]

For reference I got my Focals from Jonvy82:

http://www.jonvy.co.nz/index.php?route=product/product&manufacturer_id=38&product_id=3934

Great sounding speaker for the price but yes they require a MDF spacer to be made up - doesn't take long with a jigsaw.

[boon]

 Andy_Mac said:

Yea pretty much ay. They'll prevent excess current faults but there's still a few ways to mess them up without blowing the fuse. Pretty sure an internal voltage fault won't in all instances cause it to blow the fuse. You'll just have a few charred varisters on the board.

I've had an amp on my bench (actually more than one) where every single output MOSFET was crispy-fried along with the gate resistors and the drive circuitry. The fuses were mint, and the bleeding thing still tried to power on.

Usually when a MOSFET output-stage amp fails, the amp is driven over-current and the weakest FET in the group (which can be quite a big group in a Class D amp) fails. They usually initially fail closed-circuit and basically turn into a quite low resistance resistor, until they get super super hot and all the magic smoke falls out. Then they fail open, as the gate inside them burns away. At this point you've got, say, 5 FETs trying to handle the current load that 6 in parallel were handling until a few seconds ago, so the next weakest fails, so on so forth, until either they all go pop or the current gets high enough that the protection circuit notices and shuts the amp down.

If you're (un)lucky, the cascade of exploding FETs will pull enough current that the power supply FETs start letting go too... at that point the amp usually goes "popcorn" as we used to call it, because the ping ping ping of the exploding shards of FET cases bouncing off the back plate of the amp sounds like popcorn cooking in a pot.

[Kol12]

Well I had a test run taking the door panel off today and got some speaker measurements. The spacer is about 15.5cm and the speaker is just under 15cm. Does this mean 16cm/6.5"" speakers wont fit or will they fit with these spacers? http://www.hyperdrive.co.nz/product/speaker-spacers/706/no902-universal-spacer-6-5/151232/detail#

Does anyone have any tips for getting the speaker wire through the door boots? How do you mount the crossovers usually? Double sided tape or something?

Just got to decide on speakers now. If not these jbl's http://www.soundtech.co.nz/jbl-gto-608c-component-speaker.html can anything else be recommended up to the $200 mark? I'm hearing good things about Focal and Soundstream..

This review on the jbl's mentions good mid bass but not good low bass but I suppose this is mostly normal for components? http://www.amazon.com/JBL-GTO608C-6-5-Inch-Component-System/product-reviews/B0024JARH6

"If you run new, thicker wiring then yes it'll be a true 2 ohm. JBL/Infinity do some wierd stuff with their speakers. Alot of them are designed as 3 ohm which then due to the thin factory wiring is essentially seen as 4 ohm at the amp. Thats their theory atleast, there's no way thats the case for every car.

As long as your amp is rated for 2-4 ohm as most are you won't have any problems being in between 2 and 4"

So the amp should determine what the speakers are asking for?

Edited November 11, 2015 by Kol12

[seith_31]

what i did with mine was cut out the paper woofer to get me a proper mount for my speakers. so cut everything so youre left with a speaker mount. so didnt use any spacers. very cheap.

[Kol12]

But a 6.5" speaker won't fit in the factory mount as it's only a 15.5cm opening..

[Kol12]

Are Soundmagus amps any good?

[Andy_Mac]

can't remember the exact measurements of my stock spacer but it did fit a full size 6.5inch speaker fairly easily when using the adaptor that came with the speakers as well as the existing ones. mine did originally have the Mcintosh one so starting to think they may have had different brackets

thats where I ended up putting my crossovers

and the speakers

[seith_31]

i remember now. a glued the speaker on top of my oem mount. not ideal but money was tight and speakers (infinity 6500cx) were free.

i checked the clearance with the door card and it clears.

again, not ideal for a clean install.

[seith_31]

 Andy_Mac said:

can't remember the exact measurements of my stock spacer but it did fit a full size 6.5inch speaker fairly easily when using the adaptor that came with the speakers as well as the existing ones. mine did originally have the Mcintosh one so starting to think they may have had different brackets

thats where I ended up putting my crossovers

and the speakers

like Andy_mac's install. we have the same speakers but his is much cleaner install than mine.

@Andy_mac, you running an amp for those 6500cx's?

[Kol12]

Ok so a 6.5" speaker should fit in the actual hole in the door with the speaker fitting kit?

Are the 6500cx any good? I may get those..

I suppose this wouldn't be powerful enough? http://www.wavetech.co.nz/Clarion-XR2220.html They're 3ohm speakers right? How does that work with an amp?

How about the door boot is there a trick to getting the wire through it?

My electric window button is loose now I put it back in, did you guys have that?

Edited November 11, 2015 by Kol12

[Andy_Mac]

 seith_31']like Andy_mac's install. we have the same speakers but his is much cleaner install than mine.

@Andy_mac, you running an amp for those 6500cx's?

Mine are actually the REF6500CS, seems to be bugger all info on these particular ones. They essentially look the same as the CX ones though, so not sure if there is much difference between the two.

those tabs needed to be cut off the brackets before the door card could be fitted too.

I was running them off an amp but the amp moved to the new car but left the speakers in the old one run off the headunit. Amp was a JBL GTO1004, so 100w RMS at 4ohm per channel.

[quote name='Kol12 said:

Ok so a 6.5" speaker should fit in the actual hole in the door with the speaker fitting kit?

Are the COLOR=#333333] 6500cx any good? I may get those..

How about the door boot is there a trick to getting the wire through it?

My electric window button is loose now I put it back in, did you guys have that?[/color]

Yea the door hole is definitely big enough, just depends if different models had different adaptors.

For the door boot I pulled the door cards off and the trim up under where the wires come back into the cabin. Used a piece if thick, stiff wire, fencing wire thickness, folded the end over and taped it up so it won't catch and tear the boot, also taped a thin draw wire to it. Then pushed it through the boot from the cabin side. used a wire pulling gell so it didn't get caught up on the other wires. could maybe use dishwashing liquid instead? You can sort of navigate it through the boot by bending the boot around a bit from the outside. Once the draw wire's through everythings easy from there. Just be sure to cable tie the wires up up out of the way of the window so it doesn't catch when it lowers, also don't run the speaker wires anywhere near the power wire for the amp.

Na it shouldn't be loose at all, you didn't happen to break of the clips underneath at all did ya?

[Kol12]

Not sure I'll have to have another look. Will this clarion not really cut it for the 6500cx's? http://www.wavetech.co.nz/Clarion-XR2220.html

Are you sure you have 6500cs's? The tweeters in your pic look like the 6500cx ones.

Do they sound good anyway? I never get any bass at highway speed with stock, does this change with aftermarket? The stock clarions are 15W nominal!

[Andy_Mac]

Could be. Really can't remember the model exactly, been about 3 years since i installed them, still have the box floating round somewhere so I might try find that.

Yea they sounded awesome but they were kind of lacking in bass, huge step up from what was there originally but they seemed to be more focused on the mid to high range.

Are you only planning on replacing the front speakers? Since thats only a two channel amp?

Alot of people do just replace the fronts but personnaly I like the rear fill in too. Thats why I went with the pioneer rear coaxials as they had a fair bit more low end so it gave the majority of the mid to high from the front and then had the more bass friendly pioneer ones giving it the low down kick.

[Kol12]

Yeah I just read the whole thing about just having the front speakers only it was a while ago and I can't really remember why people do just the front? Starting to realise the components look more aimed at the mid-high spectrum. Were the fronts by themselves really that lacking in bass? Could you of got used to it or did you really need something more for bass?

I could go for a 4 channel and do something like you have I suppose, just on a bit of a budget but the rear speakers could come at a later stage I guess..

What sort of pioneers? Do you need anything expensive for the rears? I was thinking about going with just components up front and sub at a later stage, probably one of those powered 8''s

[Andy_Mac]

Not really lacking but unless you listen to really bassy music it gets overwhelmed a bit.

https://www.wavetech.co.nz/Pioneer-TS-D1602R.html

Were no where near as crisp but the point was to let the fronts cover that so didn't really matter.

[Kol12]

Ah front only is to create a more frontal soundstage but it seems that having rearfill is a preference as well rather than a must do. Haven't found out if front speakers only must have a sub to give bass though.

[Andy_Mac]

A subs not a must have. Just need to read a whole load of reviews and see what ones have a better low end. Crutchfield is brilliant for there tech daya, also, staff and customer reviews

[Kol12]

Are the Infinity 6500CX a real 3ohm speaker? How does the amp run it at 3ohms and how would you work out how much rms power its getting at 3ohm?

[AdamOst]

Decent amped fronts + sound deadening + sub should be all you need. If the amp can run 2ohm then the power it draws should be roughly halfway between the 2 and 4ohm power ratings should it? so 100w@4ohm and 150w@2ohm so 130ish at 3ohm? so as long as you dont bridge a 4 channel amp into 2 channels, most 2/4 channel amps should cope with it fine?

You should buy my caliber 4 channel amp tbh.

[Kol12]

Yeah I'm guessing that will be how whole 3ohm thing will work. I'm still unsure on what sort of bass response to expect from front components alone. I could run the rears off the headunit for a bit of rear fill but they might not even be audible once the fronts are amped? I'm on a budget and it's hard to find any amps not too expensive that allow headroom to drive 90W speakers. I may end up going for the JBL 70W components.

What's the specs on your caliber amp and how much?

[AdamOst]

One of these.

http://www.eaudio.co.nz/ca475plus.htm

http://www.eaudio.co.nz/CA475PLUS%20test%20report.pdf

$150? in pretty good condition.

OPtherwise I have a response 4x100wrms amp in pretty bad cosmetic condition but was working fine the last time I used it. Was mounted under a seat so a bit scratched up. $100?

Edited November 15, 2015 by AdamOst

[Scoobydoo]

Since you only have a 2 channel amp, you can run the fronts off the amp and then run the rears off the headunit. That way you can have rear fill, but your fronts will provide most of the sound, which is what you want.

Running wire through the door boots properly is a right PITA, and if you really want to do it properly, the easiest way is to actually remove the door so you can get into both sides of the boot. I did it once in an older car, and won't bother mucking around with that again. From now on, I just poke it through the boot on each side, but it does leave the wire visible with the doors open. But if you use a good gauge wire (14 or bigger) then you should have no issues with any rubbing. You could always cover it with rubber tubing or sheathing if you were worried about it.

Most 16cm speakers should fit the factory spacer okay, but 6.5"/17cm speakers will often foul as the baskets will be too big. But if the speakers come with their own multi-fit spacers, you should be able to use these in conjunction with the factory spacer to make them fit. You may just need to hack at the rear of the factory spacer and remove the angled weather-shield.

Putting the crossovers inside the polystyrene is a very good idea, and one I've done before. You would do this if you are putting the tweeters on the doors or in the sails, so you only have to run one cable through the doors for the signal. But if you are putting the tweeters somewhere not on the doors, then put the crossovers inside the car and run one cable for the woofers.

[Andy_Mac]

I partially disagree on getting the wires through the door boots being that hard. First one I did on the first car was a pain but once I had a rough idea how to do them it only took about 10mins or so for each one to get the draw wire through.

[boon]

 Scoobydoo said:

From now on, I just poke it through the boot on each side, but it does leave the wire visible with the doors open.

Such an animal!

I use an un-bent coathanger with the speaker wires electrical-taped to the end of it, chuck a bit of white lithium grease on the lump it makes to help it get through there...

EDIT: That said, some cars are just EVIL with stupid plastic blocks inside the boot and other dumb stuff like that.