General Tire Discussion camber wear and such

[boon]

 JoKer said:

or drive within their limits and sensibly and get great value for money mileage

Driving within the limits of a sh!t tyre means you may as well drive a Corolla and save yourself the insurance, petrol and millions of $$$ maintenance of owning a performance car. Heck you could even use some of the money you saved for some decent tyres for the Corolla and actually have some fun driving it.

Why buy a performance vehicle and then cripple it with sh!t tyres? It's like buying a top of the line computer then putting 128mb of RAM in it... the lowest common denominator applies.

[Johnnynz]

 boon']

[quote name='JoKer said:

or drive within their limits and sensibly and get great value for money mileage

/quote]

Driving within the limits of a sh!t tyre means you may as well drive a Corolla and save yourself the insurance, petrol and millions of $$$ maintenance of owning a performance car. Heck you could even use some of the money you saved for some decent tyres for the Corolla and actually have some fun driving it.

Why buy a performance vehicle and then cripple it with sh!t tyres? It's like buying a top of the line computer then putting 128mb of RAM in it... the lowest common denominator applies.

Sometimes you buy a performance car with cheap shit tyres.

And sometimes you just have a rough month and need a warrant, cheap tires do the job. Doesn't mean your too poor to own the car and you get to stay legal.

Sounds like win to me.

[Joker]

KINGSTARS!

[Johnnynz]

My original Legacy came on a set that had no English at all on them lol, just Korean.

[boon]

 Johnnynz']

[quote name='JoKer said:

or drive within their limits and sensibly and get great value for money mileage

/quote]

Driving within the limits of a sh!t tyre means you may as well drive a Corolla and save yourself the insurance, petrol and millions of $$$ maintenance of owning a performance car. Heck you could even use some of the money you saved for some decent tyres for the Corolla and actually have some fun driving it.

Why buy a performance vehicle and then cripple it with sh!t tyres? It's like buying a top of the line computer then putting 128mb of RAM in it... the lowest common denominator applies.

Sometimes you buy a performance car with cheap s*** tyres.

And sometimes you just have a rough month and need a warrant, cheap tires do the job. Doesn't mean your too poor to own the car and you get to stay legal.

Sounds like win to me.

Just go fail the WoF, you get a couple of weeks to sort yourself out... then you're not pissing money away on rubbish tyres you're going to replace a month later anyway.

[nztintin]

^^^

if your tyres fail a wof then your car is illegal and dangerous and shouldn't be on the road!!!!

[Joker]

yup Triangles are better than Snow tires which are also legal and safe to use as long as you know how

[nztintin]

snow tyres are good for 4 wheel drifting (on the track\closed roads only) kingstars are better, i'd recomend having the same tyres all round shit or not, at least it makes the car equal shit..... if that makes sense

[boon]

 nztintin said:

^^^

if your tyres fail a wof then your car is illegal and dangerous and shouldn't be on the road!!!!

Bulls***... I've had tyres with 4mm of tread fail a WoF due to some camber wear, are you telling me that a 225 wide RE001 with 4mm tread + camber wear has less grip than a 185 s***ty chingaling tyre?

[funkytown]

what if you take a nail on the heavily cambered patch and it explodes... where as the clingaling takes the nail and it only embeds in remaining tread?

its not about grip in that situation chap.. you're argument is seriously flawed.

[B_Man]

WOF rules isnt all about grip.

[boon]

 funkytown said:

what if you take a nail on the heavily cambered patch and it explodes... where as the clingaling takes the nail and it only embeds in remaining tread?

its not about grip in that situation chap.. you're argument is seriously flawed.

We are talking about 1-2mm of rubber on the very shoulder of a steel belted radial tyre. What makes a tyre with 1.5mm of rubber legal where one with 1.4mm isn't, using that logic? The WoF rules around tyres are flawed, just as they are on a lot of things. Saying that if your tyres fail a WoF means they are automatically illegal and dangerous is stupid, especially coming from someone with a track-racing background who ought to know more than your average joe about those black rubber things our car rolls around on.

[funkytown]

frankly i find your tone across a bunch of posts lately confrontational. just saying..

the line has to be drawn some where, and they decided 1.5mm is it. I also believe the definition they run to is around at least 1.5mm over 85% of the tire, so your outside those rules its a fail. Not my rules.. just THE rules.

If your wearing that heavily on edges, then how does wof man gauge that they wont wear through in x weeks or month in relation to the wear on the rest of the tire. what if its 1.4mm on 20% of one edge and 7mm on the rest of the tyre, what if its 4mm.. theres a line, 1.4mm and 16% crosses it.. sorry

one could argue with coilovers and height - why is 100mm ok and 99 not..

And fwiw i dont have a 'track racing background' per say, i've just been out a few times. And i treat those tires all the more carefully than i do roadies

[boon]

 funkytown said:

frankly i find your tone across a bunch of posts lately confrontational. just saying..

the line has to be drawn some where, and they decided 1.5mm is it. I also believe the definition they run to is around at least 1.5mm over 85% of the tire, so your outside those rules its a fail. Not my rules.. just THE rules.

If your wearing that heavily on edges, then how does wof man gauge that they wont wear through in x weeks or month in relation to the wear on the rest of the tire. what if its 1.4mm on 20% of one edge and 7mm on the rest of the tyre, what if its 4mm.. theres a line, 1.4mm and 16% crosses it.. sorry

one could argue with coilovers and height - why is 100mm ok and 99 not..

And fwiw i dont have a 'track racing background' per say, i've just been out a few times. And i treat those tires all the more carefully than i do roadies

That comment wasn't directed at you

And yeah... everyone has a couple of grumpy weeks on clubsub from time to time. I just get pissy when people post 'absolute facts' on the internet when it's a. merely an opinion and/or b. complete misinformation

The illogical approach of this thread in particular just blows my mind personally... People spend many thousands on their car, thousands more on doing it up to go faster, some more thousands on fueling and insuring it and making it legal and then skimp on probably the single most important safety feature and a very highly important performance feature on the entire car.

[Joker]

lol camber wear tires are running 30~% grip vs ditch-finders on zero camber will have 100% surface area in contact with the road

your logic is flawed

yuo I drive quite happy on non legal tires as long as i know their limits

performance car or not : overestimating a products purpose is the killer not Triangle's

[sarcasim]

oh and you forget no one is allowed to have any fun on the puplic roads rememeber![/sarcasim]

[boon]

 JoKer said:

lol camber wear tires are running 30~% grip vs ditch-finders on zero camber will have 100% surface area in contact with the road

your logic is flawed

yuo I drive quite happy on non legal tires as long as i know their limits

performance car or not : overestimating a products purpose is the killer not Triangle's

[sarcasim]

oh and you forget no one is allowed to have any fun on the puplic roads rememeber![/sarcasim]

Err, the camber wear on my tyres was maybe 1 inch wide. Leaving 200mm of good quality rubber in contact with the road, vs 185mm of shitty rubber. 30% grip, where did you pull that number from?

[funkytown]

if you also want to get technical.. look at what happens to wheels with static camber dialed in do under very heavy braking...

full contact rubber is 'safer'

oh oh and to provoke things more.. a tire will dissipate more water in the wet as this thread talked about in the first instance, if the tire has more rubber remaining, so worn edge / contact patch is less 'safe'.

thoughts.

[boon]

 funkytown said:

if you also want to get technical.. look at what happens to wheels with static camber dialed in do under very heavy braking...

full contact rubber is 'safer'

oh oh and to provoke things more.. a tire will dissipate more water in the wet as this thread talked about in the first instance, if the tire has more rubber remaining, so worn edge / contact patch is less 'safe'.

thoughts.

Look at what a Triangle Talon does under very heavy braking... some NZ car magazine did a test of this specifically, and the answer is... not a lot. Something like 3 times the braking distance of an Eagle F1, if memory serves me correctly. The reviewers were staggered by how significant the difference was.

Surely with 5mm of tread across the rest of the tyre = negligible difference in water dissipation? Look at RE070, widely rated as a very capable wet/dry tyre, the shoulders of that just about have less tread depth brand new than a MY01 with 30000kms of 2 degrees camber and spirited driving.

[funkytown]

in a round about way im a) rarking you a little and b) getting to the point that there is no hard evidence as you put it comparing tires of different tread depths (that i know of) that would verify my teaser.

thus there is an arbitrary rule... 1.4mm and 16%

[boon]

 funkytown said:

in a round about way im a) rarking you a little and b) getting to the point that there is no hard evidence as you put it comparing tires of different tread depths (that i know of) that would verify my teaser.

thus there is an arbitrary rule... 1.4mm and 16%

Fecker And b) was more or less my point, it's stupid to say that just because it fails a WoF doesn't mean it's immediately illegal and unsafe.

On the topic of Triangles, see this test result document:

(admittedly commissioned by the tyre that did best in it, but still rather damning):

http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/cz/cz/continental/automobil/temata/stop_first/hidden/pdf_tuev_report_cz.pdf

[GC8E2DD]

When it fails a WOF, it may or may not be safe in various people's opinions, but you can be sure it is illegal.

[Joker]

 boon said:

Err, the camber wear on my tyres was maybe 1 inch wide. Leaving 200mm of good quality rubber in contact with the road, vs 185mm of s***ty rubber. 30% grip, where did you pull that number from?

sure tires balloon/conform to the road slightly but you can see that half the tire is doing all the work no?

numbers I pulled out of my arse, 1 inch of worn tire is nearly 7 inhces not in proper contact with the road

[Johnnynz]

 GC8E2DD said:

When it fails a WOF, it may or may not be safe in various people's opinions, but you can be sure it is illegal.

This^

If it keeps me out of the eye of the law by staying legal its worth it to me. Stops me from being a known law breaker driving a modded car if i do get caught warrantless.

You want to talk costs? being on some traffic cops shit list after your caught breaking a law once, there's a big bill waiting to happen

My WRX runs T1Rs all around at all times... But my Altezza came on shitty (albeit new) tyres as did my Legacy. I didn't see the sense in throwing out a new set of tyres, or come to that selling them for a pittance when I can use them and replace with better quality when there shot.

[Joker]

http://www.cambertire.com/?page_id=165

 

What is a Camber Tire?

A Camber Tire is a tire built with an outer sidewall that is slightly taller than the inside sidewall resulting in a continuing decreasing diameter across the tread surface as compensation for a negatively cambered alignment setting to the wheel. When mounted on a vehicle with independent negatively cambered suspension research indicates that the Camber Tire Technology is capable of delivering substantially Improved Handling with Improved rather than sacrificed Ride Quality, Improved Tread Wear, Decreased Tread Noise, Decrease incidence of Emergency Maneuver Roll-Over, and Improved Fuel Consumption with Reduced Emissions due to a Reduction in Rolling Resistance from eliminating the need for Toe-In, and optionally facilitating the use of narrower tires to attain comparable performance among other benefits. And perhaps more importantly from a pragmatic perspective, the camber tire does so with nothing additional added-to or modified-on the vehicle. Simply a new set of tires and an alignment including properly setting the suspension camber (inexpensive camber plates if necessary; OEM on many vehicles) and the many benefits are gained whether a new or old vehicle, SUV, passenger or sports car, diesel, regularly aspirated, turbo, supercharged, hybrid, electric, Ferrari, Porsche, Prius, Teslar or a 1974 VW Beetle!

[B_Man]

^ LOL