BMCracer

EZ30 Not running very well

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I've never reset the ECU using RomRaider, only using BtSsm and it hasn't seemed to mind. I'll reset it after I put the new solenoid in using BtSsm.

 

Not sure about the temperature, it always seems to run about there?? I watched it like a hawk to and from work today, it peaked at 96 going to work, and 98 several times coming home. Not hot today, 24 degrees. All the way home it ran at 95 to 96, with spikes to 98 at the lights.  My radiator core looks mint, and both the electric fans are working.

 

What temperature should it run at? What temperature should the thermostat open? 

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With our cars the thermostat is fully open @ 95C, couple of images from the factory service manual below. Seems the dashboard temp gauge specs are horizontal approx' 88C to 102C.  Normal temp is a good question as there's not much log data shared online for the 3.0's but after reading around my guess (and it is just that) perhaps around 90C to 96C for Auckland with the dash gauge one tick below the horizontal. Maybe plus a few C for heat soak at traffic lights.  Plenty of people report that the dash gauge can clock-face 9 up to 11 so right up to the 110's with hills, hot weather or towing but I guess each car would be slightly different. It would be great if other H6 owners had data to share on this.  

 

I don't reckon small spikes of temperate are critical especially when it's managed back down but when my radiator developed a small leak the amount of time the temps basked in the 99 or 100C range increased more and more. 

 

h6-cooling-dash-gauge.png.f6dc5611355caa49e1448e218cb8271b.pngh6-cooling-specification.png.2e4a124e3b68809bcebdedb511c4221e.png

 

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My temperature gauge sits slightly below horizontal, about where it's always been. Might give it a new thermostat and radiator cap anyway, the cap looks original so 13 years old. And a flush and new coolant. Won't hurt it.

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On 28/04/2020 at 4:46 AM, ajayel said:

 

 my 5EAT auto doesn't like the engine (ECU) to be reset in RomRaider unless the transmission computer (TCU) is also reset in RR.   or just disconnect the battery whilst you do the change.

 

 

 

My car is 5EAT too. The new solenoid finally turned up this morning.

 

While waiting to it to arrive, my nexus has shat itself, so I can't reset the ECU with it anymore. And you say the gearbox doesn't like having the ECU reset without also resetting the TCU? So if I disconnect the battery for 10 minutes that will reset the ECU? Not sure where to reset the ECU / TCU from in RomRaider yet, have only used RR the one time above. Anyway, I might try and fit the new solenoid tonight, or first thing tomorrow morning. Then I'll log in it RR and post up the results. Stay tuned.....

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Posted (edited)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DSsnaZXn2hpReDXRdU6kjU1Xlbqr_umuAQpijUf7xFY/edit#gid=2094790565

 

Trying to get a nice graph out of it but not got enough brain power today :(

 

But I think the new solenoid has fixed that problem. 

 

How long before the IAM gets up? After I disconnected the battery yesterday afternoon while fitting the new solenoid, I drove home ( about 25 minutes) then I went out this morning for about another 25 minutes. How long will it be relearning for ?

Edited by BMCracer

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edit - sorry didn't read proply - you reset the battery already.  does it drive different & can you share the learning view here ? 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ajayel said:

edit - sorry didn't read proply - you reset the battery already.  does it drive different & can you share the learning view here ? 

 

 

 

I had the battery disconnected for about 25 minutes. When I started driving it the throttle pedal was very lethargic as it usually is after a reset, so pretty sure the battery was disconnected long enough for the ECU to reset.

 

Doesn't seem to drive any differently at all, maybe ever so slightly smoother when on / off the throttle?

 

How do I do the learning view? No BtSsm anymore, only got RomRaider at the moment.

Edited by BMCracer

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yeah true they are real lethargic immediately after reset.  you can get LV by pressing F6 or the Tools menu whilst connected to the vehicle   

 

image.png.b77b990617bb8958df604ef2aa9f5b6b.png

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I just tried to do the LV log as above, but it came up 

 

" ECU definition file not found or undefined. Learning Table Values cannot be properly retrieved until an ECU definition is defined in the Editor's Definition Manager"

 

So ( in plain English 😁 ) how do I do that? 

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9 hours ago, BMCracer said:

" ECU definition file not found or undefined. Learning Table Values cannot be properly retrieved until an ECU definition is defined in the Editor's Definition Manager"

 

Just means that your cars ECU ID isn't in RomRaider's default defs, not unusual for the 3.0's.  From your first post BtSSM screenshot it's D2UH001T - we can add this to RR;

 

0. close all open instances of RomRaider on your computer

1. download D2UH001T.xml from http://www.romraider.com/forum/download/file.php?id=12507 or http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6476

2. move the file to you documents folder or wherever you stored the ecu_defs.xml file 

3. open RR ECU Editor

4. click the ECU definitions menu to open the manager

5. add D2UH001T.xml to the end of the list, press save

6. close RR ECU editor

7. connect to the car, open RR Logger to try learning view again

 

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On 15/02/2020 at 6:02 PM, BMCracer said:

I bought the car in Whangarei with 139,000km on it. It's NZ new with 5EAT gearbox. I don't drive it hard ( maybe it needs an "Italian" tuneup?? ). I can't say I've ever been impressed with the low down torque, for a 3L 6 cylinder I thought it should go better. And the gearbox shifting is horrible, mechanically it's fine but whatever tells it what gear to be in and when to change is terrible. Just as well it has paddles..........

 

For the gearbox hard shifting problem especially 2-3 & 3-2 there's a transmission software update available at Subaru dealerships - got to pay I think less than an hundy.   We got this on our '07 3.0 5EAT but now no longer notice the shifts.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, ajayel said:

 

Just means that your cars ECU ID isn't in RomRaider's default defs, not unusual for the 3.0's.  From your first post BtSSM screenshot it's D2UH001T - we can add this to RR;

 

0. close all open instances of RomRaider on your computer

1. download D2UH001T.xml from http://www.romraider.com/forum/download/file.php?id=12507 or http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6476

2. move the file to you documents folder or wherever you stored the ecu_defs.xml file 

3. open RR ECU Editor

4. click the ECU definitions menu to open the manager

5. add D2UH001T.xml to the end of the list, press save

6. close RR ECU editor

7. connect to the car, open RR Logger to try learning view again

 

OK so I did all this no worries. Plugged the laptop into the car, and now it says 

 

"Retrieving A/F Learning ranges...

Error performing Learning Table Values read.

Check the following:

"Logger has successfully connected to the ECU

"Correct COM port is selected ( if not Openport 2 )

"Cable is connected properly

"Ignition is ON

 

I'm sitting her with the engine running, and it's all connected properly because I can see the rpm and battery voltage current values changing in the logging section. So not sure why it isn't working??

Edited by BMCracer

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4 hours ago, BMCracer said:

I'm sitting her with the engine running, and it's all connected properly because I can see the rpm and battery voltage current values changing in the logging section. So not sure why it isn't working??

 

Not sure , someone here may be able to help out or post those error messages to the RomRaider forums.  Did you see where the IAM value is at with RR logger ?

 

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37 minutes ago, BMCracer said:

The IAM is still at 0.500 on RR logger

 

Likely the ECU is still learning. Could've reset back or settled on 0.5 tho unusual.   Mine needs 10 minutes gentle driving followed by some wide open throttle to add timing.  

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I had the same issues trying to view LTV in Romraider from my 3.0r. Just keep using btssm like you've done in the past or use this utility

 

The ECU is constantly learning, but can only learn a/f trim and knock control values for a load/rpm cell when it's driven there and when certain conditions are met to put the car into learning mode - i.e. I guess you could say the ECU has "fully learned" once it's been driven through all RPM and load points. Really good info on knock control here

If you've driven through the rev range and your IAM is at .500 - welcome to 3.0r ownership. They knock on anything that isn't Japanese 100ron that they were built for and even then, looking at their ignition tables, I reckon they'd still ping and lower the IAM. 

 

It's good you diagnosed a faulty part and replaced it, but, you could have the world's best serviced and maintained ez30 and it would still knock on 98ron and end up with a low IAM. The only way to fix this is to tune the ignition and fueling, or, ignore it.

Low IAM won't hurt the engine, it's there to protect it. It will hurt performance and fuel economy though, as you've experienced. 

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Thanks for that Caleb. A bit or reading for during the week for me.

 

I can't use BtSsm at the moment because the Nexus shat itself and I can't be bothered trying to resurrect it.I've ordered a new 2 din Android 10 unit which I'll install in the same place as the Nexus was ( in between the 2 air vents in the dash above the stereo ) and then I'll be able to run BtSsm on that.

 

I run the car on 98 all the time, so hopefully it should minimise any knock. Now you've said the engine needs to be driven through all rpm and load points makes sense, I hadn't given it much jandel. This afternoon when I was out I gave it a boot down the motorway on-ramp so that should have helped it a bit? 99% of the time the car is lucky to see 2000rpm......maybe I need to drive it a bit harder.

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Yep it's a deep, deep rabbit hole to go down and possibly not of much value if you're not tuning it yourself, but it helps to understand what the cars doing and why. I spent hours reading and road tuning timing/fuel tables for my ez30...right PITA to spend so much time de-tuning the car just to get it to stop knocking and drive as the factory intended. 

 

Driving the car harder might help it learn knock correction and fuel trims quicker but I'd wager the end result will always be <.500 IAM. Save yourself the fuel and speeding ticket and just drive normally ;) it may learn slower but will get you the same result

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So maybe it's just me but I thought the car felt a bit more peppy yesterday. It's had a week since the ECU reset, and a good run down the motorway along with the normal city driving. So I plugged in romraider just now, and the IAM is....

 

 

0.1875  😣

 

You can't tell me that every single H6 outside of Japan is running this badly with all the timing pulled out of it?

 

Would chucking in some octane booster ( as a trial, to prove the octane is too low and it's not something else ) be likely to improve things? I struggle to believe I should have to pay hundreds to get a totally stock well maintained engine remapped just so it'll run as advertised.

 

Does anyone know if the newer 3.6 litre H6's run like this? or is it only a 3.0 litre thing? And if so, what is different about a 3.6, it must be the ECU map?

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33 minutes ago, BMCracer said:

You can't tell me that every single H6 outside of Japan is running this badly with all the timing pulled out of it?

 

Mine did for ages.  Like yourself and Caleb it bugged me because it didn't drive like an 3.0 but also that IAM would change weekly, even on the same fill of fuel (98 RON), weather so on.  I had an e-tuner work on it before learning basic open source tuning but neither helped much aside from using heaps of fuel. 

 

Then had Tactrix log full time to SD card awhile and loaded it all into a database to analyse the parameters when the worst feedback or rough knock correction happened.   Highway gradients in 5th would trigger changes which is lugging but other times it would jump around in benign driving conditions. By then I loved reading and learning anything on the H6 3.0's here or other sites, still do. 

 

But back to hardware.  IAM's been higher but more importantly stable and driving better with recent fixes however it's just a month in.  Also it's Autumn so things could change when warmer humid weather arrives, or before.  Most of these helped my car, you might have done them already but if not I hope they help  ;

  • Cylinder compression & leak down test.  For sanity and to make sure I wasn't spending up on a no good engine.
  • Regular servicing. Just good fluids, genuine filters & parts as we don't know what the previous owners did & our cars are fussy as.
  • Check the plastic air chamber that sits behind the throttle body.  There's a known vertical crack that opens up front and centre. Also the join seam that runs around its circumference can peel open a little.  They can cause vacuum leaks but are easily filled with JB Plasti Weld.  
  • Check the catalytic converter covers, they are made of mild metal and should have a couple mm gap around the pipe at the forward and rear openings.  Mine were rusted around the bolts & the ends smashed right up onto the exhaust pipe plus small stones trapped inside.  These factors can make a vibration that the knock sensors shouldn't hear .  
  • Change the in tank fuel filter & strainer.  I ended up changing the fuel pump as well which is provided with a new strainer but you can buy them separately. This change was also reflected on the knock logged.

 

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It's very frustrating, it's such a nice car, but let down by the engine running issues. Like you, I run my car on the same brand ( Mobil ) 98 all the time, yet the IAM moves around quite a lot. 

 

I don't have the gear to do a leak down test.

I maintain the car regularly myself, always use Castrol 10W40 semi synthetic oil and genuine filters. I use genuine parts all over the car ( hello Partsouq :) )

I will check the plastic air chamber on the weekend to see if it's cracked.

I cleaned the whole underneath of the car with a paintbrush and a toothbrush before shipping it to Australia, and got all the stones out of everywhere. The car had a rattle at certain low speed prior, but now it has gone so I'm hopinig it was the stones I cleared out of everywhere. I also made sure the steel guards were tight so they should be good.

I might get a new fuel filter and strainer next time I order from Partsouq. I'm going to do a thermostat and radiator cap and full flush and new coolant before next summer too.

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18 hours ago, ajayel said:

Change the in tank fuel filter & strainer.  I ended up changing the fuel pump as well which is provided with a new strainer but you can buy them separately. This change was also reflected on the knock logged.

 

 

Interested to know how this changed the logged knock. Do you think it was quite clogged up and limiting the fuel flow enough fo it to run a bit lean and then knock?

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1 hour ago, BMCracer said:

 

Interested to know how this changed the logged knock. Do you think it was quite clogged up and limiting the fuel flow enough fo it to run a bit lean and then knock?

 

I looked at the before & after logs - after the fuel pump changed IAM increased and stayed higher.  Strangely the fuel trims didn't change much but guess it would only need a brief lean moment to knock as you say.  Chopped the old filter open with a saw - didn't seem too dirty inside but wouldn't really know.  I changed the fuel filter once before last year but it didn't make much of a difference to the engine computer so I'm thinking it was the pump that helped here unless I did the filter wrong first time around.

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On 28/05/2020 at 8:40 PM, BMCracer said:

I might get a new fuel filter and strainer next time I order from Partsouq. I'm going to do a thermostat and radiator cap and full flush and new coolant before next summer too.

 

If you go with the strainer I don't think it's on partsouq because subaru don't list but uses Denso 952-0086.  You got the factory service manual ay?  The 2005-2007'ish docs didn't detail replacing the filter tho added notes in 2008,9 but the procedure is the same.  It recommends changing heaps of parts and breaking the case open .  It can be pried open with screwdrivers and re-used. The only parts I replaced were the pump as mentioned, filter & big seal around the top of the assembly and there's 4 o-rings should be replaced, note the slightly different diameters on partsouq IIRC 3 * 8mm, 1 * 7mm. The procedure's similar if you replace the pump or not as it snaps into the filter.  Anyway there's a good video here.  Please let us know how this or other work affects driveability and timing.

 

Yeah I ended up paying for the leakdown test. Ended up building a smoke machine from a youtube video to see where smoke escaped from the air intake or exhaust plumbing but workshops often have these.  Gotta love partsouq eh except when they refund something as out of stock and then send an e-mail after shipping saying the part's back in stock. haha all good fun .  

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Latest log. Been a few weeks since I put in the new solenoid and reset the ECU. About the only thing I've noticed is it seems to start a little quicker when cold, otherwise it's still got about as much go as a 3 legged donkey with a limp....

 

50003686281_abd39aac28_c.jpgBtSsm_LV_20200612_1515 by JAFA851, on Flickr

 

Just checked the airbox at the back of the engine, and there is a small crack in it. What's best to fix that with, some epoxy smoothed over the joint?

 

50003720396_8bc0f59d9c_k.jpg20200614_111457 by JAFA851, on Flickr

 

Edited by BMCracer
Airbox picture

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