engine rebuild?

[chulozumo]

so i ****ed my big end yesterday . got the nice knock in it now...taken it down to my mechanic. so needs to be rebuilt ?

pretty new to subarus and the club (had the car 3 months a 1999 type ra v-limited)

just wondering what i should do and where i should go? and a rough price estimate of how much itll cost?

i figure since im gonna have to fix the engine i may as well replace a few parts while im at it lol. but i dont really know where to start?? id prefer to do the handling rather then the power though..

anyways any help would be much appreciated..

[nt_a_foz]

Hey mate,

Theres a couple of differnet options which will influence the cost.

Depending on what you want to do with the car long term ie are you going to keep it, want more power etc etc which will influence what you would do..

Have a search as this has been covered many a times as to the options.

Cheers

[GC8E2DD]

You could try Macbilt in Grenada North. Ask for Al. Not the cheapest, but well respected straight up engine builder.

[RAYDEO]

nice, what number is yours? I also have a 99 RA Ltd #656

When i rebuilt mine i looked at alot of options ranging from buying a forged CDB from PBMS at around $3500 through to building it myself and risking stuffing it up and losing alot of money.

The budget for this kind of thing is basicly "how long is a piece of string"

you can spend ALOT! and what ever your budget is, i suggest you add another 2 k on to it for entra things. having said that, where do you stop?

My builder was so mathodical (sp?) that he made me get a new cambelt cover as mine had a crack in it and the previous owner had glued it up. things like this cost me at the time, but now im happy he made me do it. Better to be safe than sorry.

the biggest thing i can suggest is shop around and find a builder you trust and has a good track record. there are ALOT of "almost builders" out there that will just cost you more money in the long run.

I spent 8K on my engine, this included forged pistons, ACL race bearings and ported heads, things i did because it was easier to do them while the block was in parts on the work bench.

also replaced the clutch to save having to do it later.

then things like water pump, and because it was showing ware on things like the bearings, i got the oil cooler replaced as aparently you can never clean them out properly (splinters of metal coudl cause another bearing failure).

Happy to send you my "shopping list" via pm if you like so you can see what other "extras" you possibly should be thinking about.

I suggest you build a good base that dosent neserceally (sp?) have the power right now, becauce then you can add to it later and not have to do alot to the block its self.

My 2 c

[MercuryFree]

 RAYDEO said:

My builder was so mathodical (sp?)

Anal

[ReubenH]

Possum bourne motorsports do damn nice builds. I've had one for 30,000K's now and love it.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Subaru/Engines/auction-289556831.htm

They do open deck builds too, which are cheaper, and probably a better option for you.

I spent 8K all up on mine too, getting forged pistons and rods, new seals for everything, baffled sump, new oil pump, water pump and cambelt kit, spark plugs, etc. etc.

[chulozumo]

hmmm true..so ill be spending a fair bit then hah. Im definatly keeping this car for a looooong time.

my mechanic rang today and said itd be about 5k+ for the rebuild through him..still need to find out who would actually be doing it. Not sure what kind of condition the block it self is in atm and He said he'd check the crank shaft out so guess ill know tomorrow...

went over to macbilt just before but al wasnt there so ill go back tomorrow..luckily i work just up the road.

what do you mean by open deck builds? i dont know much about this all at the moment..

[ReubenH]

Ah, sorry. Open deck and closed deck refer to what block they use. Closed deck blocks are from the old gen-1 legacy's (and some old STi's), but are popular for rebuilding cause they basically have re-inforced cylinders, or a 'closed deck'. So basically they are old blocks, that are built like bricks, and can handle allot of power. Open deck is the block you would currently have, and is basically the normal block.

Open deck should be 100% fine for you if "id prefer to do the handling rather then the power though.. " is how you feel. I only linked the closed deck block cause PBMS don't have any open decks up at the moment.

No.1 thing though, for the rebuild.. Make sure you get second opinions! Follow up recommendations of people to see, honestly.

[RAYDEO]

pretty sure hes in Wellington, given hes talking about Macbilt in Grenada North.

I went with an ODB as there was no real evedence to prove the theory about the CDB that was mentioned above, It is a good theory but after talking to people i decided not to waste more money, all i did was bore and hone the cylinders and get over sized forged JEs

[ReubenH]

Pretty much, like i just said, open deck is just fine.

[BC5RA]

 RAYDEO said:

pretty sure hes in Wellington, given hes talking about Macbilt in Grenada North.

I went with an ODB as there was no real evedence to prove the theory about the CDB that was mentioned above, It is a good theory but after talking to people i decided not to waste more money, all i did was bore and hone the cylinders and get over sized forged JEs

It isn't a theory, It's a fact.

With all the money you spent, another $100 would have been a drop in the bucket for the removal of a possible weak point.

[funkytown]

CDB have their own weak points as well.. where as the later open or semi closed EJ207s benefit..

the CDB does have its +'s for sure il agree.

the net effect the OP needs to research carefully and work out what the aim of the car / engine is and proceed accordingly.

[BC5RA]

 funkytown said:

CDB have their own weak points as well.. where as the later open or semi closed EJ207s benefit..

the CDB does have its +'s for sure il agree.

the net effect the OP needs to research carefully and work out what the aim of the car / engine is and proceed accordingly.

Why not expand on that.

[RAYDEO]

 BC5RA']

[quote name='RAYDEO said:

pretty sure hes in Wellington, given hes talking about b]Macbilt[/b] in Grenada North.

I went with an ODB as there was no real evedence to prove the theory about the CDB that was mentioned above, It is a good theory but after talking to people i decided not to waste more money, all i did was bore and hone the cylinders and get over sized forged JEs

It isn't a theory, It's a fact.

With all the money you spent, another $100 would have been a drop in the bucket for the removal of a possible weak point.

a POSSIBLE weak point exactly. its not a definate weak point. if it was definate that i would have issues with my current block, I would have changed it but given there was no avilable proof that it would be a weak point in my car and im not out to make 600HP at the wheels there was no point.

Bruce Saxton has been building and working with EJ20 blocks/engines since they first came into NZ, hes done work for Possum Bourne.

There for, Bruce's opionion I trust, when he was building my engine he said "They wouldnt have put the ODB into production in cars with vastly more power than the early gen Legacys, if it wasnt up to the task"

but yes, i know you know your stuff on these engines too. more than i do thats for sure, im just saying why i came to my conclusion.

and at the time, another $100 would have been the difference between me eating dinner for a week or not.

[BC5RA]

 RAYDEO said:

a POSSIBLE weak point exactly. its not a definate weak point. if it was definate that i would have issues with my current block, I would have changed it but given there was no avilable proof that it would be a weak point in my car and im not out to make 600HP at the wheels there was no point.

Bruce Saxton has been building and working with EJ20 blocks/engines since they first came into NZ, hes done work for Possum Bourne.

There for, Bruce's opionion I trust, when he was building my engine he said "They wouldnt have put the ODB into production in cars with vastly more power than the early gen Legacys, if it wasnt up to the task"

but yes, i know you know your stuff on these engines too. more than i do thats for sure, im just saying why i came to my conclusion.

and at the time, another $100 would have been the difference between me eating dinner for a week or not.

I know what that's like.

The point is high PSI was not on the agenda presumably for your build, therefore your OE block was fine.

There is no possibility, It must be stronger. I'm no engine builder but it's as simple as looking at one and then the other.

[GC8E2DD]

 BC5RA']

[quote name='funkytown said:

CDB have their own weak points as well.. where as the later open or semi closed EJ207s benefit..

the CDB does have its +'s for sure il agree.

the net effect the OP needs to research carefully and work out what the aim of the car / engine is and proceed accordingly.

/quote]

Why not expand on that.

I'm certainly no expert, but you can use a rear thrust/ cross drilled crank with the later open decked blocks (which can also be dowelled anyway right?): http://www.clubsub.org.nz/forum/index.php?topic=5291.0

I've also heard CBDs take longer to heat up and ultimately run hotter which makes sense to a layperson like myself given the increased mass of the block. Whether it is significant enough to care I don't know.

[RAYDEO]

 GC8E2DD']

[quote name='funkytown said:

CDB have their own weak points as well.. where as the later open or semi closed EJ207s benefit..

the CDB does have its +'s for sure il agree.

the net effect the OP needs to research carefully and work out what the aim of the car / engine is and proceed accordingly.

/quote]

Why not expand on that.

I'm certainly no expert, but you can use a rear thrust/ cross drilled crank with the later open decked blocks (which can also be dowelled anyway right?): http://www.clubsub.org.nz/forum/index.php?topic=5291.0

I've also heard CBDs take longer to heat up and ultimately run hotter which makes sense to a layperson like myself given the increased mass of the block. Whether it is significant enough to care I don't know.

yes that was another thing mentioned to me, less room for the coolent to flow meaning they run hotter, dont think it makes a huge difference though.

I was also told that the cylinder walls on the ODB are thicker/stronger, whether theres any truth to that or not im not sure.

sorry to hijack thread!

[chulozumo]

tis all good mate. i know like nothing atm so it all helps i guess lol.

Went and visited macbilt today but got told by allister he wont know anything untill they have taken the block apart and looked at it. so i think their going to go pick her up tommorow

Had a quote from my mechanic for my engine to be rebuilt for 5k+ but allister said they could do it much cheaper which is mint and its just down the road from my work so i can go visit on my lunch break hah

not sure what the next step is..guess i gotta wait till tommorow.

so if i want to add more power to my car later down the line would it be better if i got a closed deck? or will my current one be fine?

[RAYDEO]

current one will be fine. but id suggest forged oversized pistons at a minimum

[Guest]

 

so if i want to add more power to my car later down the line would it be better if i got a closed deck? or will my current one be fine?

Depends on how much power your talking about

[Guest]

Muzza @ PBM told me that if your looking at high boost then CDB is the way to go.

Personally i also think the CDB secures the headgasket alot better. For a coupla hundred more its good insurance and option down the line to make more power.

Do it once do it right.

My water temps have not changed from going open to closed deck.

From memory the reason Subaru ditched the CDB was cost. ODB are alot cheaper to make.

[ReubenH]

Continuing on thread jack:

Little thing about the ODB and the CDB. Later open decks (was it phase 2 and on?) moved the thrust bearing on the crank, supposedly to help save BEB's. So if i was just doing a stock replacement engine, and not shooting after high power, i'd go with a late open deck over a closed deck.

 RAYDEO said:

yes that was another thing mentioned to me, less room for the coolent to flow meaning they run hotter, dont think it makes a huge difference though.

I was also told that the cylinder walls on the ODB are thicker/stronger, whether theres any truth to that or not im not sure.

sorry to hijack thread!

It makes no difference to coolant flow. All heads and head gaskets kept the closed deck pattern, so flow is exactly the same.

[Guest]

I don't think there is any clear evidence that the move to rear thrust had anything to do with BEB.

Plus as they get older the later rear thrust engines are still doing BEB.

Nice crack in that liner

[ReubenH]

Yeah, hence the 'soposedly'. It's only what i've heard.

[chulozumo]

so i went down to macbilt in grenada north and had a chat with allister. Got it back today all rebuilt with forged pistons and all. Highly recommend going to him! he knows what hes doing with subarus. he made it so easy for me. Definate G.C!

now time to run her in.... ;p