do wagons make good track cars?

[aim]

The idea of a hatch for rallying was a short wheel base I thought.

In general, wagons have a higher CD as they create more turbulence over the back, and AFAIK, this is true of imprezas and legacies. A lot of thought goes into aerodynamics, and it's been proven over and over sedans are easier to make more streamlined. It's also one of the reason Porsche use fastbacks, lower CD, as there's no 'drop off' although I suspect now it's more of a recognition/image thing.

[pl0x]

 aim said:

The idea of a hatch for rallying was a short wheel base I thought.

+1 but for subarus the wagon & sedans have same wheelbase anyway?

[funkytown]

 pl0x']

[quote name='aim said:

The idea of a hatch for rallying was a short wheel base I thought.

/quote]

+1 but for subarus the wagon & sedans have same wheelbase anyway?

depends which version you talk about.

gc / gf yes. In GD/GG it changed. V11 didnt have a sedan.

[aim]

Ah, but the v11 was hatch only. Maybe they could have the wheel base shorter if they stuck to hatch only?

[gotasuby]

the BG and BH wagons were meant to have a lower CD than thier sedan parners thats why they were used to set the world speed records and the BH still holds it to this day AFAIK

[GC8E2DD]

 aim said:

The idea of a hatch for rallying was a short wheel base I thought.

That might make sense except that as far as I can find the wheelbase has grown in size for each of the three generations of chassis - most significantly with the third. It's all about the overhangs ...

[aim]

 gotasuby said:

the BG and BH wagons were meant to have a lower CD than thier sedan parners thats why they were used to set the world speed records and the BH still holds it to this day AFAIK

Nah that's wrong, they set the record for the 'small engined turbo charged wagon production car' class, the sedan has a lower CD. But doesn't have a world speed record for its class.

[Joker]

I'm gunna stay constant today and disagree

Legacy Wagon's have better CD /end

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Legacy#Speed_records

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficient

 

[table][tr][td]C_d[/td] [td]Automobile[/td] [td]Year[/td][/tr][/table]

[table][tr][td]0.34[/td] [td]Subaru Legacy Wagon[/td] [td]1993-1999[/td][/tr][/table]

sadly doesn't list equivalent Sedan.. - I can only prove half

edit Coefficient of drag: 0.34 Sedan http://www.motortrend.com/cars/1998/subaru/legacy/gt_sedan/822/specifications/index.html

(edited again for 1998 US model vs comparable GT Wagon of -

Coefficient of drag: 0.3 WIN!

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/1998/subaru/legacy/gt_wagon/825/specifications/index.html

[ODB]

you have recently lampooned me for using wikipedia as referance material (!)

[GC8E2DD]

I guess it is possible that they used a Legacy wagon to set the record for fastest production wagon, even if the sedan had a lower CoD, because no Legacy past or present is ever going to win a fastest production sedan record ...

[Joker]

notice the edits - and they are hardly relative anyway USDM with most likely BK not BG('may' make all the difference

Edit or try

Vehicle CdA

Make Model Year Cd Height (In) Width (In) Frontal Area (ft^2) CdA

Subaru Legacy 1994 - 1999 0.35 23.25 8.18

Subaru Legacy Wagon 1995 - 1998 0.32 57.1 67.5 22.5 7.20

from http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/Vehicle_Coefficient_of_Drag_List

is the lower number better or worse?

cos I notice the WRX on that list .33

[GC8E2DD]

I don't understand how the sedan can have a greater frontal area when they are generally identical to the B pillar. If anything the step in the roof of the wagons surely creates a greater frontal area?

[Joker]

well there's an issue straight away.... instant flaw in wiki/s

[funkytown]

 GC8E2DD said:

I don't understand how the sedan can have a greater frontal area when they are generally identical to the B pillar. If anything the step in the roof of the wagons surely creates a greater frontal area?

not that i disagree with your intention but how can they be identical to the b pillar when your talking about a change in the roofline infront of said b pillar? A pillar perhaps..

[aim]

BK/BG funky.

[funkytown]

 aim said:

BK/BG funky.

Wut???

[aim]

BK has a different roofline to the BG afaik - although they're both wagons.

[Joker]

weren't talking about that aim - Sam asked how can sedan's have a greater frontal area on that table I linked to/referenced

but yes BK's will be 1-1.5 inches shorter/same as sedan's

I blame human error or two different cars in two different states etc - we don't know their sources

waaay off topic - but still very little info on GF8's as in spec's not technical-know-it alls hahaha

[aim]

Ahh well, with the information we're given, it doesn't really matter, buy what you think looks the prettiest and you have a 50/50 chance of getting it right

I guess I just have to ask myself, why are more production time attack cars sedans or coupes as opposed to wagons? Personally, I'd got for a sedan/coupe, a) I like the look better and b) ...well, as far as I can tell, they appear to be more popular amongst racing circles. Weight and stiffness perhaps has more of a gauge on performance than .01 on the drag coefficient.

[Joker]

edit appears 2005 Models CD are exact same...

http://www.cars101.com/subaru/impreza/wrxsti2005.html

[GC8E2DD]

Yeah, I'm not convinced that sedans have a greater frontal area than wagons. If the CoD on wagons is lower then I would have thought it was due to airflow at the rear. I would love to know the genuine figures. I'm inclined to agree with aim - the difference in drag coefficient is probably not the deciding factor in which body is significantly better for racing than the other. Torsional stiffness, as Qwerty pointed out earlier, is probably a much bigger factor. All this of course from an armchair opinionator/ conjecturer =]

[funkytown]

id bet half of it is also to do with 'cool' and racing ppl would far rather a sedan that hatch. Extend this to drifting, where 'go fast' isnt really the aim, so you could possibly use either with little difference.

[Joker]

get a ute

[GC8E2DD]

High level overview: http://autospeed.com/cms/A_109778/article.html

I'm leaning towards the "It's unlikely the wagon has a better CoD" end of the scale now. Especially if the sedan/ coupe equivalent has a carefully designed vortex generator or similar wizardry to delay flow separation from the rear window.

[Guest loren]

Wagons are not fast. Proof right here